SPEAKER_01 0:15

Welcome to the Pan Am Podcast, brought to you by the Pan Am Museum in Garden City, New York. This podcast and our museum are dedicated to celebrating the legacy of the world's most iconic airline, Pan American World Airways. My name is Tom Betty, and I'm the host of this program. Thank you for joining us. The Pan Am Museum Foundation is a nonprofit organization. Our mission statement is to educate, celebrate, and inspire present and future generations by preserving historical and diverse personal stories of Pan American World Airways. Please visit our website for more information at the Pan Am Museum.org. Again, our website is the Pan Ammuseum.org. You can also find us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. If you are using Apple Podcasts, please consider leaving a review. It will help others discover this program. If you're not familiar with Pan Am, welcome. We are honored to have you here. And for you to learn about what we're all about. If you already know of Pan Am, worked for, or flown on the airline, or just love our history, it's good to be with you again. So with that, let's get this episode in the air, so to speak. Welcome aboard your Pan American jet clipper. In this episode, we explore the fascinating history of Concord. Then we will be joined by Captain Mike Manister, the chief pilot of British Airways Concorde Fleet from 1995 to 2003, along with Jennifer Coots Clay, Pan Am's general manager for product design and development, and before that worked on the Concord project for British Airways. And John Lample, a 41-year veteran executive of British Airways, who worked for the Concord program the entire 27 years of service. But first, this episode is a direct follow-up to Episode 7 titled Supersonic Transports An Angry JFK and Flying the Line. In that episode, we explored the race for the first passenger supersonic aircraft between a British and French partnership, the United States, and the Soviet Union. We also explored the demise of the American SST project, the Boeing 2707. If you haven't already listened to this installment, we urge you to do so after listening to this episode. Pan American World Airways ordered a total of eight Concords, however, cancelled in 1973 due to the astronomical projected operating cost and the success of the subsonic and far less expensive Boeing 747 jumbo jet. In fact, the Boeing 747 was originally designed to be a transitional aircraft. In the 1960s, most estimates are predicted that by 1990, passenger supersonic aircraft, also known as SSTs, would be commonplace and would replace subsonic commercial passenger aircraft. The 747 was designed to be versatile, and when the SSTs were ready for the airlines, the 747 fleet would be then converted to cargo aircraft. By 1974, even though the British and French won the race for the SST, there was growing doubts on if Concorde would ever enter passenger service. Almost all of the airlines, including Pan Am and TWA, cancelled their orders, and the development and projected operational costs continued to skyrocket, not to mention the oil crisis throughout the 1970s. The political leadership and economic landscape in both countries was shifting, and the future of the program was uncertain. Let's take a listen to a May 5th, 1974 report from Morley Safer from the American news program 60 Minutes.

SPEAKER_30 5:25

Concorde means thousands of jobs in France and across the Channel in Britain. Not only jobs, but the prestige of Britain and the glory of France are at stake as well. Concorde may just be the most extraordinarily costly joint venture two nations ever launched. For now, just as Concord seems to have proven itself, both nations are considering scrapping the plane.

SPEAKER_31 5:47

For as beautiful as Concord looks as it blazes through the sky, pushing 1,400 miles an hour, the economics of commercial aviation have made it a two and a half billion dollar white elephant, and no airline really wants it. But when Concord was first conceived back in the late 50s, commercial aviation was a license to print money. Speed was the holy grail, and Boeing was the first to provide it with a 707, cutting the transatlantic trip from 12 hours to seven.

SPEAKER_04 6:16

Ladies and gentlemen, this is the captain speaking. On behalf of the flight crew and myself, I'd like to welcome you aboard Pan-American's Jet Clipper to Paris. Our flight today will take us to LeBoucher Airport.

SPEAKER_31 6:27

CBS sent a reporter named Bill Leonard to cover that inaugural flight.

SPEAKER_32 6:32

And this year, Paris and what happens there is considerably closer to us in New York because this is the year of the jet. The year that Paris is as close as Hollywood. In a jet age, Paris is no longer something to dream about. Paris is next door. And a Pan American jet clipper flew us to that door in seven hours.

SPEAKER_31 6:53

Today, Leonard is 16 years older. He's everybody's boss in 60 minutes, and it still takes seven hours to cross the Atlantic. So in the 50s, Good Planning dictated a plane that would take passengers beyond 600 miles an hour, beyond the sound barrier. Military aircraft had done it, but for commercial aviation, carrying 100 passengers or more economically, a whole new technology had to be created. So, with great certainty, Britain and France in 1962 signed an elaborate document, pooling their resources to design and build a plane to fly twice the speed of sound. A plane that would break the American hold on commercial aviation. The contract was lodged with the international court and provided no get-out. Neither country could withdraw for technical or financial reasons. It was also the price of Britain's entry into the common market. And so Concord was born. In Bristol, England, they were to build the engine, tail, and nose. And in Toulouse, France, the wings and fuselage. It was to become the most tested and the most expensive commercial airplane ever built. In the 60s, there was the assumption that we'd all be flying supersonically by now. The American aircraft industry, late to the game, feared a serious challenge to its domination of the commercial aircraft business. President Kennedy authorized $750 million for an American SST, a bigger and faster plane than Concord. After eight years and almost a billion dollars and not much more than a mock-up, the project was dropped. Killed by a powerful environmentalist lobby and the vivid memory of enormous cost overruns on military aircraft. There was a temptation to drop Concord as well, but the Anglo-French plane was far advanced, and there was a question of the Russians. Two months before Concord's maiden flight, they flew the TU-144. It was immediately dubbed Concordsky. And there was good reason for the striking similarity between the two planes. An espionage ring working in Toulouse had been supplying the Soviets with streams of information on the Concord's test bed performance. Two Soviet agents were finally taken off the Ostend to Warsaw Express with toothpaste tubes full of microfilm. Five years later, the Russians paid dearly for their rush into the commercial SST stakes. At the Paris Air Show at subsonic speed, an overzealous Soviet pilot lost control. But foreigners were the least of the threat. The cost of the plane was soaring, from half a billion to a billion dollars, and still climbing. But unless both countries agreed to cancel, neither could. So Discord was saving Concord. Next, the environmentalists, not as powerful in Britain as the U.S., and perhaps a bit extravagant in their fears. England's green and pleasant land would be devastated. Seagull heads and airline stewardesses would become sterile. And the ancient and glorious cathedrals of England would first lose their magnificent stained glass windows and then would all tumble down as a result of sonic boom. Every eccentric got into the act, complaining that cats had gone mad from Concorde, this days before the plane even flew. And sound engineers found before Concorde's flight that their meters had gone haywire. The bass notes of the great organs at Evensong were much more powerful than Concorde's sonic boom. But the builders heeded the pollution problems and managed to reduce emissions and airport takeoff noise to those of a Boeing 707. And it was agreed that she would not break the sound barrier over populated land. But Concord was not to be the next great leap in commercial aviation. It was this: the wide-bodied conventional jet, the jumbo. Upstairs, downstairs, they could carry 400 people great distances. Still less than 600 miles per hour, but great economy for the airlines. Cheap to operate. And compared with Concord's maximum payload of 120 passengers, a bargain price. $28 million each against Concord's projected $50 million. But against that, Concord would cross the Atlantic four times a day, a jumbo jet only twice. The airlines staked their future on the jumbo. But the jumbos provided more seats than passengers. Cheap charter fares stole millions from the scheduled airlines. And the American carriers, Concord's biggest potential customers, went deeper into the red. The British and French launched a massive sales campaign for the plane, sending it round the world, showing the flags, showing that this was no mere peak into the future, but a viable passenger aircraft that moves at roughly the speed of a bullet. They claimed that in spite of its drawbacks, limited capacity and range, huge fuel consumption, that once fully operational, no airline could afford to be without it, at least for first-class travel on lucrative routes. But the money men in the airline said no. First Air Canada, and then by the dozens, airlines let their options lapse. The worst blow came when Pan American and TWA, within an hour of each other, canceled their order for 13 Concords. Leaving two possible orders by Iran, which can afford anything, three for China, for a projected Peking to New York service, and only nine firm orders for Air France and British Airways, both extensions of their own governments. A two and a half billion dollar misunderstanding of the economics of commercial flying. And France and Britain both with new governments ponder the chilling statistics that show that at $50 million a copy, the more planes they build, the more money they lose. To show a profit, they must raise the price, and orders for hundreds of planes must be renewed.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

There is a link in the episode description to view this broadcast that has incredible footage from 60 Minutes. Defying all expectations, the British and French governments remained fully committed to the Concord project and turned to their national carriers to fly them. British Airways and Air France would be the principal airlines for the duration of the aircraft service with various financial support schemes from their respective governments. On January 21st, 1976, both made aviation history by inaugurating Concord Passenger Service. On that day, British Airways flew from London to Bahrain, and Air France flew from Paris to Rio. To mark the occasion, British Airways modified their call sign to Speedbird Concorde to distinguish itself from other aircraft types, which would also let air traffic controllers know of the unique abilities of the aircraft in subsequent restrictions. Air France used their normal airline call sign. Even though British Airways and Air France were the principal operators of the Concorde for most of the 27 years of service, it should be noted that Singapore Airlines had a joint operating agreement for a short time with the Singapore Slivery on the left side of the aircraft. The partnership was for only three flights in December 1977 and then operated for almost two years between January 1979 to November 1980. Braniff International Airways also leased an operated Concorde subsonically between Washington Dulles and Dallas Fort Worth Airports for a short period of time, from January 1979 to June 1980. Aside from these two exceptions, the Concorde was exclusive to British Airways and Air France. The Concorde had an exceptional safety record, with only two incidents involving structural failure of the rudder in 1989 and 1992. These incidents did not involve any injuries, and the flight crew did not even know there was an issue until after landing. The only other known issue was 57 tire failures between 1976 and 2000, which is about 30 times more frequent than the expected rate of conventional aircraft. In 1979, an Air France plane experienced a tire failure that resulted in debris damaging the aircraft's fuel tank and hydraulic cables with no injuries to passengers or crew. Again, Concord had an exceptional safety record for the majority of its operational career. But that record would change in the summer of the year 2000. Let's take a listen to an American news report from ABC News on July 26th, 2000.

SPEAKER_07 16:36

On World News Tonight this Tuesday, the first Concorde ever to crash just after takeoff from Paris. 113 people are killed, which included everyone on board. It is the world's most glamorous passenger aircraft. We'll take a closer look. What's the magic and what will this crash mean to Concord's future? The Middle East peace talks at Camp David collapse. What happens now? And the Republicans have a full campaign team. I believe you're looking at the next vice president of the United States. Governor Bush reaches into the old establishment and chooses Dick Cheney.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

From ABC News World Headquarters in New York. This is World News tonight with Peter Jennings.

SPEAKER_07 17:25

Good evening. It has been quite a day. We'll get to the Middle East peace talks and the running mate for Governor Bush, but for the first time in more than 30 years in its history, a Concorde has crashed, and that's where we start. It was an Air France Concorde chartered by a German tour company. It had just taken off from Charles de Gaulle Airport in Paris when something cataclysmic happened in at least one of the four engines. In this picture, you can see a long stream of smoke and fire as the pilot struggled to gain altitude. He failed.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

Before this tragic accident that claimed the lives of 109 passengers and crew on board and four people on the ground, Concorde was arguably the safest airplane in the world, with zero passenger deaths by kilometers traveled. Within hours after the accident, the Concorde was temporarily grounded, and an intensive investigation commenced. It was later determined that debris that fell off another aircraft onto the runway punctured one of the Concorde's tires during takeoff, causing it to explode with the projectile rubber penetrating the fuel tank causing a fire. In addition, unbalanced weight distribution in the fuel tanks, a loose landing gear, and the pilots veering off course on the runway, which reduced takeoff speed below the crucial minimums, were all links in a chain of events that led to the crash. While the Concorde was grounded, both airlines were committed to safety improvements to correct the vulnerability that led to the Paris crash. Each of the Concords were upgraded with more secure electronic controls, Kevilar lining on the fuel tanks, and the development of special burst-resistant tires. In addition, during the grounding period, British Airways was committed to making Concorde a long-term success and upgraded the whole Concorde experience with new interiors designed by Sir Terence Conran and the London-based firm Factory Design. With this new design campaign, every detail was given a makeover, such as the addition of super light inky blue cradle seats and calmly hide, the bright lights that ripple through the cabin, when the aircraft broke the sound barrier, more modern cuisine, cashmere covered pillows, and spa-like bathrooms. Let's take a quick listen to a clip from a promotional film when this new campaign was unveiled in the fall of 2001.

SPEAKER_11 20:20

The ultimate design icon of the 20th century.

SPEAKER_14 20:24

The brief was a sort of dream brief, really. We have to try and reflect that style, that elegance, that modernity inside the play. Bring the elegance of the outside in.

SPEAKER_15 20:37

Yeah. It was just look at all aspects of the Concorde experience. There are specialist uh designers doing the seats.

SPEAKER_22 20:45

Beautiful, beautiful design seat.

SPEAKER_11 20:46

It's a carbon fibre bucket seat, which is one complete component.

SPEAKER_13 20:50

That is significantly lighter than the existing seat. It's 20% lighter. And yet it has many more features.

SPEAKER_11 20:58

And the money we save through the fuel saving pays for the project.

SPEAKER_13 21:01

The seat that we've designed is absolutely as comfortable as it's possible to make a seat because Concord is a long-haul flight on short haul timescales.

SPEAKER_14 21:10

We're responsible for the whole interior appearance.

SPEAKER_22 21:15

Bringing in the very best that we counter as the best level.

SPEAKER_14 21:18

The timer and glass, the knives.

SPEAKER_11 21:20

And they're actually quite lovely things to hold, and they're they're a lot lighter than the current cutlery. All of these products here we've designed will be special and unique for Concorde.

SPEAKER_22 21:29

Completely new bathrooms, gullies, new service routine.

SPEAKER_13 21:32

With the bathroom, every little bit of space matters. And we simplified everything out.

SPEAKER_14 21:37

We took out the aircraft and have a less is more philosophy.

SPEAKER_13 21:41

So that the appearance of the new loo is absolutely as minimal as possible. We wanted to celebrate um boarding Concorde. The sides of the pier as you walk towards the plane are are are clear. So it's all about the whole theatre of flying. We wanted to engage the passengers.

SPEAKER_22 22:00

When Concord goes through the sound barrier, there'll be a lighting effect.

SPEAKER_13 22:04

A blue wave of light that washes from the front of the cabin to the back of the cabin in just under a second. Very simple but quite dramatic.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Certainly the markings of rebirth and a bright new future for the British Airways Concorde Program. On November 7th, 2001, normal commercial operations resumed and the Concorde was once again airborne. However, in less than two short years, the retirement of the program was announced on April 10, 2003. Air France was never able to recover financially from the crash and cited low passenger numbers and a decline in overall air travel following the September 11, 2001 attacks. For commercial reasons, the airline decided it would not continue flying Concords. With Air France out, British Airways was not in a position to absorb 100% of the high maintenance cost of the program. In addition, Airbus had also made the decision to no longer supply custom replacement parts for the British Airways fleet of Concords. With the loss of their partner of 27 years and the need to find a new supplier to make replacement parts for an aging aircraft first conceived in the early 1960s, British Airways was forced to reluctantly retire the program. Air France made its final Concord flight on May 30, 2003, from New York to Paris. In the fall of 2003, British Airways arranged for a grand farewell tour of the aircraft in Toronto, Boston, Washington, D.C., New York, Birmingham, Belfast, Manchester, Cardiff, and Edinburgh. The day before the final flight, Queen Elizabeth II illuminated Windsor Castle, an honor usually reserved for state events and visiting dignitaries, to honor Concord as the last westbound commercial flight departed for New York overhead. The next day, British Airways made its final Concord flight on October 24, 2003, from New York to London. Great celebrations were held to bid farewell to this extraordinary aircraft in both New York and London. At the end of this program, we will play the final air traffic control radio recording of JFK bidding Speedbird Concord a fond and final farewell. Let's listen to a farewell tribute to Concord produced by British Airways celebrating 27 supersonic years, and then on to our interviews.

SPEAKER_10 25:52

Over the last 27 years, Concord has captured the imagination of people from all over the world. An extraordinary feat of engineering. A unique plan of power. She's brought cities together, brought people closer, and reminded us all that we can do extraordinary things.

SPEAKER_25 28:16

Oh, I wonder who might be on Concord, maybe famous film star who's just signed a contract in New York or something.

SPEAKER_26 28:23

Catherine Sister Jones is an absolute star, so glamorous, so Hollywood. Paul McCartney's probably everyone's favourite. He will say hello and he remembers us. Oh Richard Keer.

SPEAKER_24 28:36

Have loved him since I was five. You can always recognise it. It looks like a swan with the shape of its neck.

SPEAKER_03 28:45

It's the most brilliant example of fast-sighted designers. Thought ahead and kept a beat five shape.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

No matter how many times you fly, there still is that amazing, exciting sensation when you take off.

SPEAKER_27 29:01

Every day is getting around. By the time the passengers come on board, the air is absolutely charged with excitement.

SPEAKER_05 29:19

It's the nearest thing I've ever heard of.

SPEAKER_10 30:11

We take our standards of service still higher and higher.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

Captain Mike Bannister joined BOAC, British Airways predecessor, in 1969 as a pilot and flight navigator on the Vickers VC-10 fleet. He joined the Concord flight crew in 1977, becoming the fleet's youngest pilot. In 1995, he became Chief Pilot of British Airways Concorde Fleet until the retirement of the aircraft in 2003. Captain Bannister accumulated around 9,600 Concorde flight hours, with almost 7,000 of which were supersonic. Jennifer Coots Clay first joined us in episode 5 of the Pan Am podcast titled Missiles, Hotels and Rebranding an Icon. She began her aviation career at British Airways, where she earned broad experience in marketing and operational management assignments across the airline network. In 1979, she was appointed Head of Operations and Sales for Western USA, the first woman to be appointed to such a position in the airline. From 1984 to 1986, she was responsible for the implementation of the Landor Associates Design Scheme for the British Airways Concorde Fleet, both the exterior livery and the cabin interior treatment of the aircraft. Jennifer joined Pan Am in 1986 as general manager for product design and development. In this capacity, she completed a three-year, $25 million fleet upgrade program redesigning all major aspects of the Pan Am Passenger Service product. Jennifer is the author of the ebook Jetliner Cabins. You can find a link in the episode description to purchase this book. For over 27 years, John Lampell promoted British Airways Concorde from its first commercial flight in 1976 to its last commercial flight in 2003. John worked on all of the publicity surrounding Concorde, as well as media relations, press conferences, one-on-one interviews, public relations planning, creating crisis communication procedures and manuals, and conducted media training for airline staff. He worked for British Airways for 41 years, and his last position before retiring was as vice president corporate communications in the Americas. Welcome to the Panam Podcast, Captain Bannister, John, and Jennifer. Captain Bannister, I'd like to start with you. Tell us about what inspired you to become a pilot and how you became a Concord captain.

SPEAKER_08 33:13

Hi. Well, I I always wanted to be a pilot right from the age of seven. It was kind of those things that I just wanted to do. I was a little lad sitting on the beach in the south of England watching aircraft flying over. And a coach journey to get there had taken five and a half hours. And with the precociousness of a seven-year-old, I worked out that the same journey in an airplane would take 20 minutes. So that was it. I was sold. So I told mum and dad that's what I wanted to do, and they said, yes, dear. Through school and straight from school to pilot training college, and straight from pilot training college to DOAC, a forerunner of British Airways. But it was when I was studying for my final exams that the British Assembled Concord first took to the air. I can remember I was sitting in a study room watching a little black and white television and watching the commentary as Concord lifted off from Bristol Filton and flew a very short distance to the test center at Fairford. And I thought, that's what I want to do. I want to fly Concord. And of course, I was about 19 years old at the time. And with the precociousness of a 19-year-old, I just thought that's what would happen. And luckily for me, a few years later in 1977, my opportunity came. So I flew Concord from 77 to 89 as a co-pilot, then joined the British Airways management team before being invited back as the chief pilot in 1995. So I was very lucky. I got two bites of the cherry, and it is the most sensational airplane to fly. So I was extremely fortunate.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

Well, let's talk about this incredible aircraft. Uh, a masterpiece of engineering, innovation, and design inspired people to dream. Modern technological triumph that borders on science fiction. The Americans had the moon landing, and the British and the French had the Concord. Tell us about why this aircraft is so unique and exceptional.

SPEAKER_08 35:06

I guess there's a there's a number of reasons. Clearly, the first one is that it travels very quickly, twice the speed of sound, 1,350 miles an hour, about the speed of a an ordinary rifle bullet, a mile every two and a half seconds, 23 miles a minute, literally faster than the Earth rotates. So you could take off from London in the autumn or in the spring in pitch darkness, and you travel west towards the state so quickly that the sun rises in the west. Three hours and 20 minutes was a fairly regular flight time between London and New York. The New York London record is a mere two hours and 52 minutes and 59 seconds. So that's the first thing, I guess. The second thing is it was remarkably good comfort service, cuisine, wine, real top-notch, first class plus, thanks to our fantastic cabin crew that really looked after our customers. And the customers were regular folks, it was a business person's airplane. 80% of the people that traveled Concord were business people, 80% of those were repeat customers. The remaining 20% were 10% the rich and famous, 5% sports and entertainment, and 5% of folks just doing the trip of a lifetime. So it was in that sense sensational. It appealed to everybody. Everybody knew that it was technically wonderful, but it appeals to both sides of the brain because it's also artistically beautiful. And that was at a time when um building aircraft was still not as sophisticated and as advanced as it is now. There was no computer-aided design, it was a room full of uh draftsmen working at their tables and designing it by slide rule. Uh it was originally designed in the 50s, brought to fruition in the 60s, and flew in the 70s, and it had so many uh first odds. It was the first flyby wire airliner, it was the first aircraft to use fuel to alter the center of gravity to trim the airplane and reduce fuel consumption. It had carbon fiber brakes, it had electrical signaling for the throttles, electrical signaling for the steering, a whole bunch of innovative things that you can find uh these days on modern aircraft all over the world. So it really was a trailblazer and an absolute delight, and of course, wonderful for the customers who could do in two days what would otherwise take four. They could London to New York do a couple of days' business and back again in two days, as opposed to four to five days, and you felt a lot better. So it ticks so many boxes in terms of being a wonderful tool for the business person, the rich and famous, and for Joe Public, who could save up and but not very much money to get that trip of a lifetime.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

Jennifer, would you like to speak to the uniqueness of the aircraft and your work on this project?

SPEAKER_23 38:00

Well, this is one of my favorite subjects. So thank you very much, Tom, for inviting me to join this podcast today. Yes, uh, the Concord interior was very special for a start. It was um constrained, and the seating two plus two on each side of the aisle, a 16-inch wide aisle. Many people had to turn sideways to walk down the aisle, but it was a wonderful experience, and in fact, uh people said that they were very, very comfortable because a lot of work had gone into making the uh seating very, very accommodating. Now, the different schemes that flew between 1976 and 2003 uh varied. The first scheme was brown colored and looked welcoming and comfortable. The thinking there was that new passengers might be a bit worried about flying at twice the speed of sand, twice the height of Mount Everest, faster than a rifle bullet. And they needed to have seats that looked comfortable, a bit like being in the lobby of a respectable bank or in the reading room of a traditional London club. So the um choice uh at British Airways was to have a brown coloured fabric with uh transverse stripes to give a trombone uh optical illusion impression of greater width across the fuselage. Then in uh 84, December the 4th, 1984, the Landor Associates uh scheme was launched and was implemented in 85. And that was a high-tech look because Concord had become ultra famous worldwide as a symbol of high-tech supremacy and brilliance. So British Airways made the decision to move to a silver pearl grey, they called it a pearl grey scheme, and this was a great jump. The house colour of British Airways of course is uh traditionally blue with red accents, but the Concorde was seen as a halo and something different, so the Concorde interior had to look very special, and the grey scheme, the silver grey high-tech flew with uh modifications, interim modifications for about 15 years, which was about twice as long as the normal interior scheme, and was copied by airlines worldwide. For example, when the Canada regional jet was introduced in the United States by United Express, the design brief was to make that 50-seater cabin look like one of the Concord cabins. And when Jet Blue launched in New York City in the year 2000, even the Wall Street Journal remarked, ooh, they have grey leather-covered sea from nose to tail. And those are just uh two examples, but there were hundreds of examples of the silver grey high-tech interior inside aircraft on airlines worldwide. And then launched in 2001, although the design work had started in the late 90s, a very different scheme was implemented, a very opulent but not extravagant. A deep blue, a midnight blue, ink blue, dark blue leather scheme. And that was headed by Sir Terence Conran Factory Design and Bright X uh Aviation, and those seats were beautifully upholstered. We're talking about seats that were only 17 inches wide, but ultra comfortable, and so uh we found that with uh Concord customers they were very happy with their seats, and the seat pitch was 37 or 38 inches, a bit like premium economy these days. So, yes, the interior history of Concord deserves a book in its own right, I would say.

SPEAKER_01 42:48

John, as head of airline communications for British Airways for the Concord project, uh for all of its operational history, I'm sure you have lots of stories to tell. Would you like to share any of those?

SPEAKER_28 43:04

You know, it it's looking looking back over the the years, uh it was really a team effort from the communications point of view. I was lucky enough to be in New York and be on the the sort of stateside part of it, but had been to London many times. It um as Mike said, and I'd like to reiterate, it it was the speed factor. The people that I dealt with in in public relations, the news, media, radio, television, broadcast, newspaper, uh, social platforms didn't really exist at the time. But at any rate, everybody was so impressed about the speed. Um to go one further, what Mike had said, I mean, literally, a business person or a journalist covering a story could leave London at 10 in the morning, get into New York at 9 30, do business, cover whatever. News story they had, and take the one o'clock aircraft back to London and be home for a late dinner that evening. It was just incredible. I think a lot of the uh news media that I dealt with were terribly impressed, one the speed. But as as both Jennifer and Micah said, you know, the the people that traveled on Concord, you know, you'd be sitting next to, I flew once with Margaret Thatcher. Um, I was on a plane with with Eric Clapton and all these famous superstars who you sort of dreamt about or saw on television or heard on the radio, you know, they were there. And it was it was so real. It's it's it's quite incredible. I was very lucky at one time to uh go on an inaugural flight when we did a joint service with Singapore Airlines. And at one time we did a flight, it went from London at a fuel stop in Bahrain and then on to Singapore. And that was amazing. You could be in, you know, in the morning in in London and the evening in Singapore. Normally it's uh a long, long flight uh on a subsonic airplane, but but to do that on Concord was thrilling beyond anybody's wild imagination. Um it as Mike had said, and as Jennifer has said, it was probably the most photographed airplane ever. It probably still is. The the lines, the curves, it's it's a thing of beauty. And and really that's what everybody was impressed about. That that, you know, and then the sad, the really sad part, there's no successor other than there are a couple companies now that are trying to um build or design a successor to Concord, to supersonic flight, but I don't think in our lifetime anybody will see such a successful airplane um as Comcord. It was, I'm I'm forever grateful that that I had the experience to fly on this airplane.

SPEAKER_01 46:06

Captain Bannister, many of our listeners uh work in the aviation industry and are pilots. Can you walk us through what it was like to fly this aircraft?

SPEAKER_08 46:18

I guess the the most impressive thing was that despite all its sophistication and advanced technology and the speed and its performance, you could actually fly the airplane with your fingertips all the way through takeoff, uh climb out, climb to subsonic altitude, acceleration through the sound barrier, all the way up to 60,000 feet across the Atlantic, deceleration, descent, and onto landing. You could do it all with your fingertips. And I have done that. It was so responsive. It was a real pilot's airplane. Um, not a complicated airplane, a complex airplane is a huge amount for the crew to learn and understand because it's a like it's four airplanes in one. It's a high airplane, a low airplane, a fast airplane, and a slow airplane. Because, of course, for the takeoff and landing phase, you're in amongst the same traffic as all the other aircraft. You've got to mix in with them, you've got to fly at the same speeds, you've got to be able to do what they can do, and then go on to do things they can only dream of doing. So it was a delight for flying, very satisfying because not just the speed, one of the other things that we as operating crew were really keen on was punctuality. Um, there's not a huge amount of point in crossing the Atlantic in three hours and 20 minutes if you set off an hour late. So the whole airline was really focused as it is now on punctuality, but with Concord in particular, punctuality was essential. And it was very, very unusual for us to um leave late and very unusual to arrive late. And even to this day, when I talk to people about Concord, it's very common to hear folks say, ah, yes, I used to set my clock because Concord came over my school or my office or my home at 11 o'clock every morning. It was that regular, and of course, such a distinctive, to my ears, beautiful sound. On the loud side, perhaps, but distinctive. And we got very few sound complaints, despite the fact that it was fundamentally uh quite a noisy airplane. So it was a delightful airplane to operate. It kept you busy. There wasn't much time to sit down and read the paper, but it kept you busy, but it was demanding and because of that, very satisfying to operate it efficiently, effectively, and punctually across the Atlantic.

SPEAKER_01 48:43

So, Captain Bannister, when you were walking through the terminal and when children were on your aircraft, how did that make you feel that they looked at you as a role model?

SPEAKER_08 48:54

Well, I kind of that's an interesting thought. I never really thought of it like that. I was just fortunate enough to be in the right place at the right time and to be honored and privileged to fly this beautiful airplane and to work with a sensational group of people within British Airways and all of our associate partners that made this happen. So it certainly wasn't uh something I felt I was a role model about. I was very, very grateful to be part of a bigger team that uh pulled together. At the time, at any given moment within British Airways, there were about 250 people within the Concorde team. And that was at a time when the airline employed 41,000 people. Uh, not all the same, not always the same 250 throughout the life of the airplane, but flight crew, cabin crew, ground staff, loaders, baggage loaders, uh, ticket sales agents, um, John and his colleagues in the press office, Jennifer and the folks looking after the internal design, all of that group made up at about 250 people. So you knew most of them, quite a lot of them by name, and the ones that you work more often with, you know their families. So it was it was a family atmosphere inside a massive airline. Uh and that in itself was remarkably rewarding. So walking through the terminal, I wasn't really thinking about being a role model, but just how lucky that seven-year-old boy had become.

SPEAKER_01 50:20

In 1963, Pan American World Airways placed an order for Concord for six and then added two uh later in the 60s. In 1973, Pan Am and TWA canceled their orders three hours apart. Jennifer, I understand that you have a Pan Am story when you joined Pan Am in the mid-80s.

SPEAKER_23 50:46

Yes. I joined Pan Am in August 1986. And it was really interesting. Shortly after my arrival at the Pan Am building here in Midtown Manhattan, there was a meeting in the boardroom on the 46th floor to deal with the um presentation material relating to the Airbus A310300, for which Pan Am was the launch customer. Very exciting time because Pan Am was going to be flying two engines on the Atlantic, the twin-engine operations. And this was going to be less expensive than three engines like the Lockheed 1011 or four engines like the Boeing 747. So I got to the boardroom early because I had to bring some files from the design department. And when I walked through the door, I was quite amazed because there on the table was a model Concorde in full Pan Am livery with a blue ball on the tail. And I just stopped in my track because I was amazed. And I thought, oh, maybe something special is going to happen. Oh, what is this? So I was told that uh among the model aircraft, and Pan Am had a wonderful collection of model aircraft, they always loved showing off Concorde in Pan Am living and they wished they had had Concord. And oh, it would have been so different if they had had Concord. Of course, these comments came from the marketing people who had wonderful dreams and speculations. But that experience really brought it home to me how special Concord was. And uh, as with John and as with Captain Bannister, I feel that I was greatly privileged to have the chance to work on Concord while I was at British Airways. And again, Concord set style standards. Of course, the design development plans in those days in the late 80s really tried to feature a high-tech look instead of the more comfortable uh appearance that had been the style back in the 70s. So Concorde's legacy lives on in different ways.

SPEAKER_01 53:34

John, would you like to talk about uh the market segments and the different routes between British Airways and Airfronts?

SPEAKER_28 53:42

Well, of course, um British Airways flew between New York JFK and London Heathrow. And that's still probably the the most heavily traveled route in the world, I guess, today. So it was certainly one of the most uh more passengers fly between London and New York than probably any other route on on the Atlantic. Um and that was that was the bread and butter route. We did through the years, and and Mike knows probably a lot more of the destinations than I do, but we also did uh in early on we did this uh when it first started, we had to fly London to Bahrain because the United States government would not permit Concord to fly to the United States. But when we did in 1976, uh we flew first to Dulles Airport at Washington, and then a year and a half later, well, it started in May of 76, and then in November of 77, we got the rights to fly into JFK. And from then on, we operated twice daily between New York and London. And in the beginning, it was it was several times a week between Washington and London. We also flew for a while between Washington and Miami, sort of a subsonic uh go out of the water maybe for 15-20 minutes, supersonic, and then come to Miami. And I think that ran um for a short period of time. We did a lot of charter work uh to various cities in the United States and around the world. We also um flew on weekends. We would fly from Heathrow to the Caribbean, I think to Barbados, and uh from New York we had a few charter flights to Bermuda. But uh in the end, the the certainly the the London Barbados flight was very successful. It flew once a week, I believe, on Saturdays, and uh that was always full, and I can remember people telling telling us all about that. And as I previously said, we did have this arrangement at one time with Singapore Airlines flying from London to Singapore via Bahrain, and that worked very well until Singapore decided that uh from a commercial point of view they wanted to split off and and uh fly their own route. They never did order Concorde, as far as I know, but uh it was too much of a competition that cut into their premium business. So we we stopped that service. But uh the the charter the charter work that we did with Concord was amazing. I mean, it probably we probably flew, and Mike can confirm that my we we probably flew to every country in the world and um so many cities in the United States. I remember being on the ground at Seattle, Washington, and at Las Vegas, Nevada. Um when it flew from JFK to some of the cities in the United States, we had to fly subsonically because of the overfly rules, but we flew just under the sound barrier so we wouldn't boom everybody below us. But uh people in the United States were thrilled to have Concorde come to their local airports. So, and and of course, it it it was great news. I remember once uh a dual landing at Orlando, where the two aircraft landed on parallel runways at Oran or at Orlando for a big, I think it was a Disney, some sort of Disney promotion or something like that. The French, the French started um at the same time they flew um to one of the islands just off of Africa and then on to uh uh Rio de Janeiro, I think, I think it was Brazil. And uh and Mike, correct me if I'm off the mark here, but uh of course their bread and butter route was London, I was sorry, Paris, Charles de Gaulle to JFK, and that they did um successfully, although more people week, we were able to do double daily because more people just flew between London and New York. There was more of a demand, and we were able to uh provide that service.

SPEAKER_08 58:01

Yeah, and if I could add a bit to what John was saying there, uh it's quite amazing that when Concord first came in, we had a limited um scheduled destinations, the ones that John had mentioned, and also Dallas Fort Worth. But what was really interesting were the number of charter or special flights that we did. Concord actually went to 252 different airports around the world. 76 of those were in the USA. And many of those were a one-off visit. I can remember going to Oklahoma City once. 45,000 people turned out to see the aircraft. And you don't get that around the world for any other airplane at all. You know, 45,000 people living in the Oklahoma area came out that day just to see this wonderful airplane. And it's when that sort of thing happens that it just underscores what you already know, just how fortunate the three of us were to be involved with the Concord program.

SPEAKER_23 58:56

May I add something about the Air France route from Paris to Rio de Janeiro? It flew into Dakar, Senegal. And I remember being in Dakar, Senegal, and uh this was a long time after Concord had ceased operations, but there was a big sign uh near the um runway saying, Welcome to Concord. And I know from people who did fly that route, uh they could walk in the Bois de Boulogne in the morning, take Concorde, and apparently they could swim on Copacabana Beach later that afternoon. But the really wonderful experience, apparently, was at Dakar because they didn't have environmental uh restrictions there at the time. And apparently Concord could hurtle down the runway and take off like a jet fighter going up vertically, they used to say, like a rocket. And this was terribly exciting. So I wanted to add that because many customers reported that wonderful experience. And now I wonder whether they've still got that sign at uh the airport at Dakar. Welcome to Concord. I know they would love to have Concord back uh in their airport all over again.

SPEAKER_28 1:00:23

Just to uh add to that little uh a little vignette. I remember once traveling, I think it was out of Barbados or Bermuda, but when we took off, um in, you know, sort of taking off and then flying over the Atlantic, you could achieve the speed of sound much quicker than you could, let's say, taking off at London or at New York. Because around those, around those um citified airports, you'd have to use various uh, you'd have to throttle back for the noise for the environment and and and not to produce so much noise around the airport. But on the islands, you could just leave the uh the afterburners on and uh just get get to supersonic much quicker than you could uh departing from uh the traditional airports.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:12

So when I was a boy in the 1980s, uh my dad took me to the Cleveland air show and the Concord was there. And I still, it was still one of those boyhood moments that you'll never forget. Perhaps you were there, Captain Bannister. Cleveland, Ohio.

SPEAKER_08 1:01:30

Funny you should say that. Um, I was actually flying it because that was the last time that we used Concord in a real air show, um, really putting her through her paces. It had been something that we'd done for a number of years, but as health and safety became more predominant and the British Airways board became more conservative, and uh, we decided that really this aircraft was fundamentally a passenger carrying tool and not an air show display beast. Um, the PAS that be reined in the number of uh displays that we could do. And the one in Cleveland, Ohio was the very last one that we did in the USA, and I was actually flying it that day. So, yes, I do remember it very well. Um and it was huge fun. We really racked the airplane around like a fighter. The minimum height we would go down to is 200 feet, 60 degrees of bank, which is almost three times as much as you get in a conventional airplane, and we would pull up to 2G, twice the weight of gravity, and minus uh 1G. So uh, and we had a particular air show routine that we would do, which we had um perfected over the years. So uh it was a great boys' day out to go and throw this aircraft around. And it was a great shame um from a pilot's perspective when we stopped doing that. But of course, I did fully understand that really this is a tool for the the customer and not a toy for the pilots, but nonetheless, it was great fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:02

That's that's so cool that you you were flying that. And I was, you know, 36 years ago, I was a you know, a six-year-old boy. Um, you know, that's that's that's really, really cool. I will tell you, as I was in the audience watching that, uh, they were cheering when the Concord started doing those maneuvers. It was it was one of those experiences that you'll never forget.

SPEAKER_08 1:03:28

We did we it's quite funny. We did something very similar um before that. As I say, that was the last time we did in the USA. We did something similar at the Canadian International Air Show at Toronto out over the lake. And we would again would go down to 200 feet and high angles of bank and strong G. And the following day, we got a terrible rocket off of the air show organizers because the wind was in a particular direction, and we'd got down to 200 feet and pulling 6G and the the big vortiz, not 6G, 2G, the big vortices off the wing had grabbed the water and created a six-foot wave which had swept across the lake, flooded the air, flooding the air traffic control caravan. And so that the whole air show came to a halt for 15 minutes while they made alternative arrangements. Uh, I guess just because we were showing off. So yeah, it was um it was really great fun, a fabulous thing to fly.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:22

So, John, would you like to speak to the charter flights and special flights? I've heard about day trips from London to Cairo to see the pyramids and then be back home by dinner.

SPEAKER_28 1:04:38

Well, I think uh first of all, if you're going to go to Egypt, I wouldn't do it in one day. I would spend at least a week there seeing the the pyramids and and all the beautiful temples and the the great magnificent objects that that Egypt has to offer. Um but yes, I mean you have to fly subsonic over Europe and then land in Cairo. And probably Mike, Mike will know much better than I, correct me, probably a two or three hour flight. Uh, because subsonically, I think it's five, five or six hours, four or five hours, I don't know. But um, that would have been uh a fabulous thing, you know, fly to Concord in the morning, do a tour of the pyramids, and fly back to London that evening. Uh, I never did experience that. Uh, I knew we we probably had flights like that, but uh the charters, as Mike said, you know, the charters did attract people. It was incredible. I remember when I was talking about that dual landing at Orlando, thousands and thousands of people came out to the to the airport to to view that. I remember the airport in Los Angeles where people came out, or or other places. I remember in being in Seattle once in November when the Beaujolais Nouveau uh was released in France, and there was a British airway. Concord that flew a a huge load of of Beaujolais Nouveau wine to be distributed in the Pacific Northwest. And uh it was it was amazing that what what the airplane could do and the people that it would attract. And uh it's it's still a people grabber.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:21

Air Force One is a symbol of the United States government, Pan Am is a symbol of America when it was in business, and Concord is really a symbol of the United Kingdom and France, and France. Captain Bannister, can you tell us a little bit about some of the celebrations you've been involved with, including performances of the aircraft in front of the Queen?

SPEAKER_08 1:06:49

Of course, Concord was a huge publicity tool for British Airways, as well as being a wonderful passenger-carrying airplane, and we used her as such. So quite a lot of the charters and the special flights we've been talking about were actually uh designed and scheduled to fit in around major events. So, for instance, taking the US golf team to and from the Ryder Cup when the Ryder Cups played in uh Europe or across for the Open, the British Open, um major sporting events like Wimbledon, um, major cup finals and soccer matches and matches in the USA, we would arrange for Concord to do a special charter flight that happened to take us over those sporting venues at the time, hopefully, when the whole thing was coming towards an end. So just by the time of the final whistle or the final bell, lo and behold, a Concord would come over the top. And we didn't have to say anything. Um, the TV cameras would always follow it because it's such a beautiful aeroplane. We in British Airways didn't have to do or say anything because that shape said British Airways. And so it was wonderful free advertising for us. And we also used it for um major state occasions. So I have been fortunate enough to fly with the UK Air Force aerobatic team, the Red Arrows, on a number of occasions. Uh, the state opening of the Scottish Parliament and the anniversary of Heathrow. But the most memorable one for me was for the Her Majesty the Queen's Golden Jubilee, uh, platinum jubilees coming up uh this year. So this was her Golden Jubilee, so it was 20 years ago this year, and we formated with the Red Arrows and lots of other RAF airplanes, uh, but we brought up the end of the display, and we flew down the mall, the long, gorgeous avenue leading up to Buckingham Palace. We flew down the Mall at a thousand feet at 325 miles an hour, um, ten aircraft in close formation with Concord leading the nine red arrows. And I kind of knew what that was like because I'd done that formation flying before. What I didn't know, and what I couldn't even possibly perceive in advance, was what it was like to look at a hundred uh sorry, a million and a half people. There were a million and a half people in and around the palace, in the parks, on the bridges, down the mall, and they were literally shoulder to shoulder, waving and cheering. And from a thousand feet, which is you know just over 300 yards, you could see individual faces, you could see umbrellas and flags. And when we came over Admiralty Arch, which is at the end of the Mall, looking down the Mall, you could see Her Majesty standing on the balcony at Buckingham Palace, uh, and she was wearing a flame orange outfit, so distinctive. Uh, and you know, that was that's just one of those things that sticks in my mind and will stick in my mind forever. And it was a really sensational and exciting thing to do. And then just to crown it all, because I was lucky enough to do that, I was subsequently invited to uh a reception held by Her Majesty at the palace to thank all those that were involved in the Golden Jubilee. So I actually got to meet her and chatted for about four or five minutes and also spoke to His Royal Highness Prince Philip. Um, and you know, we were talking about Concord in general and how she used to come over Windsor Castle when the wind was in a particular direction. And he would always say that uh uh yes, he knew full well about that because that's what kept him awake at night, uh, which actually wasn't true because we didn't fly at those sort of times, but it was his little joke. He was a huge enthusiast for Concord, and he he has actually flown it because he was a very accomplished pilot. So on the early days, he went up on a test flight and did actually fly the airplane. But yes, we used it as a PR tool, and we were very, very fortunate to be involved in many special events like that.

SPEAKER_28 1:10:51

Tom, if I could if I could add, um, carrying on what Mike said about sporting events, um, I'm a tennis enthusiast and have attended Wimbledon, and I'll never forget one day I was in Center Court and the aircraft flew over as it was on approach to Heathrow, and play just stopped. Everybody looked up, and for I don't know, 10-15 seconds, everybody just gazed in wonder at this gorgeous airplane. It was fabulous. I'll never forget that.

SPEAKER_23 1:11:24

Can I jump in with another item? There's a very famous picture of uh Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother sitting in the flight deck. Now that was a very special occasion, I think. Um, Captain Bannister, were you involved in that event when the Queen Mother took her place uh in the flight deck?

SPEAKER_08 1:11:45

I actually pressed the shutter on the camera because I was on the flight deck as a the supernumerary pilot. Um, we put an extra pilot on board, and we'd invited Her Majesty up for the takeoff and the landing, uh, which was a uh a civility that we extended to members of the royal family, very rarely uh accepted, but um Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother did on both occasions. And um she was there, it was her 80th birthday celebrations, and she was absolutely thrilled to be sitting on the flight deck. I've also thrown uh Royal Highness the Princess Margaret um on the flight deck of Concord, which was a surprise again because although we extend the courtesy, they rarely accept it. But I can remember coming into Heathrow, flying over Windsor Castle and looking out and seeing the Royal Standard flying, and a Royal Highness the Princess Margaret leaning on forward and saying, Oh, I can see my sister's home. So um, yeah, it was great fun. And you got to meet some very, very interesting people.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:45

What were some of the differences between the British Airways Concord operation and Airfronts?

SPEAKER_08 1:12:53

The the biggest difference was um the style at which the operation was pitched from a customer's perspective. British Airways pitched it at first class plus, Air France pitched it at business class plus. And uh that difference showed because there are a huge number of customers originating in France, but not from immediately around the Paris area, who would choose to fly wherever they were, say in the south, let's say Marseille, for instance. They wanted to go from Marseille to the States on Concord, they'd go Marseille to London and get on the British Airways flight rather than Marseille to Paris and get on the Air France flight, because our onboard offering was uh superior. Um, in terms of operating, we had a bigger operating program. As John mentioned already, uh, we were operating uh two flights a day in each direction to uh New York. Air France were only operating one. Uh, we had a broader route structure, and the airplanes themselves were effectively identical. Uh in the very early days, there were plans about having interchangeability that we could, British Airways and Air France could fly each other's aircraft. That never actually came to pass. But from a technical perspective, they were very, very similar. But from a customer perspective, we definitely in British Airways endeavored to make it a first-class plus project project. Uh and that's part of the reason why um we spent so much time, effort, and energy with wonderful people like Jennifer making sure that um what we were offering on board was the best in the air. And when she mentioned early on that other airlines and manufacturers copied what we'd done, that is the greatest praise. The greatest praise you can possibly have is when somebody's copying what you've come up with. So um, yeah, it was huge fun to just see the look on customers' faces when they get off, having traveled for just three hours and 20 minutes across the Atlantic. I've gained an hour and 40 minutes of their life because they've arrived before they've left. They're feeling great because they traveled across the Atlantic in an airplane whose cabin altitude is equivalent to 5,000 feet rather than 8,000 feet. And they all had a smile, every single one of them. So yeah, it was huge fun.

SPEAKER_28 1:15:14

I can I say one thing. Uh Mike just touched on it. The um the feeling that one had getting off the aircraft because you had flown across the Atlantic at 5,000 feet rather than 8,000 feet, which is common among the subsonics. So whether it was jet lag or your stiffness or whatever, Concord was a healthier airplane in that respect.

SPEAKER_23 1:15:38

Yes, I would like to jump in. People came off Concorde beaming and smiling, and quite often going straight off to parties or business meetings. How often did we ever hear of Concorde passengers saying they felt tired or unwell or snoozy after the flight? Somehow the flight gave them great energy, and uh that's something really memorable. So I think that was one of Concord's great achievements.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:07

There was another factor in it as well. As John mentioned, not only were you at 5,000 feet, of course, for just over three hours as opposed to 8,000 feet for eight hours, the other thing was you were traveling so quickly that the sun apparently went backwards in the sky because you're traveling faster than the earth rotates. And so uh that we are told by the scientists is part of resetting the body clock. So because the it's a subconscious thing, you don't think about it, but because the sun is going backwards in the sky, it resets the body clock. And when you took off from London at 11 a.m. and arrived in New York at 20 past 9 a.m., gaining an hour and 40 minutes, it actually really felt like 20 past nine in the morning. So you really did have the opportunity to do a full day's work or a full day's pleasure, whatever you chose to do. Um, and you felt fresh and fit and capable of doing it.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:00

We haven't talked about one subject, a very important subject. We alluded to it, but let's talk about the food on Concord.

SPEAKER_23 1:17:09

Well, I would like to offer some comments. The food on Concord was superlative and at the very highest standard. And in fact, Air France started the celebrity status for Concord food and beverage and menu design and service standards. In particular, it was um uh Alain Ducasse, the um wonderful uh chef based at Hotel de Paris in Monaco, with more Michelin stars than any other chef at the time, apparently. And Air France regarded Concorde as a display platform for French cuisine, French wines, French service standards. And the cabin crew members actually went along to the Alain Ducasse kitchens for special training. And the menus were really wonderful. We're talking about um lobster tail, we're talking about foie gras, we're talking about canal, we're talking about delicacies, truffles. Um, and this was really one of their main selling points. On British Airways, we were very fortunate because the food and beverage programs were headed by the Rue brothers and Anton Mossiman, who was the head of the Dorchester food and beverage programs. And the galleys on Concord are quite tiny. How the cabin crew managed to serve these wonderful meals with the constraints of the galleys. Well, that's quite a miracle. But the food was renowned and very, very carefully structured. So the menus were ultra luxurious, and then there were opportunities to offer very, very special wines and champagnes vintage mark. So the food and beverage was uh a very important point given the marketing positioning product feature and customer benefit. Oh, why should it be so important? People used to ask. Well, in fact, the aim was for people, for passengers to remain in their seats. Concorde's not the sort of aircraft where people can wander around, like the Airbus A380, for example, and sit on a sofa or visit a cocktail bar, as on, let's say, the A340. Uh, Virgin Atlantic had a very famous cocktail bar. Concorde has the tiny aisle 16 inches wide. And so the aircraft seat was extremely important. It had to be comfortable and welcoming, but it was very important for passengers to have something to do during the flight. Did they have seat back TV? No. What sort of entertainment was there? Well, um, audio entertainment, uh, multi-channel audio programs, and then this amazing meal. And the flight attendants did a brilliant job on their trays. They could carry up to a dozen glasses of champagne or half a dozen glasses of wine absolutely smoothly because there isn't uh turbulence up at the high altitude. And so passengers were able to look out through the window of Concord. Now, the window pane is about the size of a passport, six and a half inches high, four and a half inches wide. And if they were really lucky, they could see the dark blue indigo colour of the distant horizon and possibly curvature of the earth. But the mail service was the central activity, and it was exotic, it was wonderful, and people still talk about the Concord menus. So, yes, it was a great experience on both Air France and British Airways.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:43

I know it was very bittersweet when the end of the program came in 2003. Would anyone like to talk about why Concord?

SPEAKER_08 1:21:53

I guess I'll take that if I may. Um, as you might imagine, from a personal perspective, uh, it was very sad. It followed a terrible accident in Paris when Concord crashed and 113 people were killed. But that was not the reason why British Airways uh stopped operating Concord. We were committed to the aircraft, and immediately after that, I was heavily involved in the accident investigation. We were looking at mechanisms to absolutely ensure that that accident could never happen again. And we found those mechanisms. All accidents are a chain of events. Uh, there are links in the chain, even the simplest accident, falling over in the showers, got three links in it. The water's running, you drop the soap, you don't look where you put your foot. And aircraft accidents, much more complex. The Concorde One had about 27 uh links in the chain. If you take any one of the links away, it won't happen. We took away three links out of the chain. We put new tires on the aircraft, we put linings in the fuel tanks, uh, and we changed the electrical wiring system. So, from a safety perspective, the aircraft was perfectly fine. That accident couldn't happen again, and we got our customers together, and we actually had a major event in the UK and in the States where we drew together our top customers, explained exactly what we'd done in the UK. They could actually climb inside the airplanes, put their head in the fuel tanks, see what we were doing. So, from a from a perspective of the customer, all they wanted was this wonderful business tool back. And they were delighted when we did return to service um in 2001. And we in British Airways, as Jennifer mentioned, had put a brand new interior on the airplane with gorgeous dark blue leather seats. Uh, incidentally, the the weight saving from those seats uh counterbalanced the additional weight of the modifications, so that was good news. And we were operating really successfully for a while after that. But the story wasn't the same with Air France. With Air France, of course, it was their accident, and so it had a much, much, much bigger effect on them. They had never um positioned their aircraft as being first class plus, they had never moved away from the government subsidy arrangement that we in Britain had had until 1984, where we moved away from it. And so the incentive for them to be commercially successful wasn't there. Uh, there was a large loss on the uh Air France books as Air France was coming up for privatization. All of these things came together to persuade Air France that the time had come for them to stop operating. And of course, it was difficult enough operating a really sophisticated airplane where there's two airlines involved. And with only one airline involved, it would have been much more difficult and much, much more expensive. We in British Airways would have almost had to double our cost on engineering infrastructure with the manufacturer. So the numbers just didn't add up. And I can remember our chief exec at the time, Rod Eddington, saying that we all knew that all good stories have an ending. Uh, there's always a final chapter. In Concord's case, it's just come sooner than we would have liked. I argued vehemently with MBA that we shouldn't cancel the uh the project, we should carry on. But my argument didn't carry the day. So then you're faced with a choice, aren't you? Do you throw your toys out of the pram and uh go off in a huff, or do you accept collective responsibility and get on with it? So I chose answer B. And for my sins, I was put in charge of the retirement program. And I was determined, as all of my colleagues were around me, to make sure that the 27 years of successful supersonic service with British Airways on Concord was a celebration and not a wait. And so, in collaboration with John and his colleagues in marketing and communications, we ensured that we really waved the flag around the world, uh, culminating in a really memorable last flight from uh New York to London on the 24th of October 2003. Uh and then subsequent to that, of course, um, we took some of our Concord fleet uh to be on display to the public, uh, including those in the United States in New York and in Seattle. So it was a sad moment, but um I put it in context with thinking about the 10th anniversary flight. I flew the 10th anniversary flight out of New York down to Bermuda, as John mentioned earlier, uh, 10 years to the day after Concord came into service. And the Concorde test pilot Brian Trubshaw was on board chatting to him. He said, Well, it's amazing, Mike. I never thought Concorde would operate for 10 years. It operated for 27 years. So there was a huge amount to celebrate. Uh, we were determined to do that, and hopefully we were successful.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:54

Uh, you you had mentioned that the public can see Concord aircrafts in various museums. I understand that you're heavily involved with Brooklyn's Museum. Can you tell us a little bit about the Concorde display there?

SPEAKER_08 1:27:10

Yeah, I'm I'm involved with Brooklyn's Museum, which is in Weybridge. I'm also involved with the museum in Bristol. Each museum that has a Concord does it slightly differently to major on particular aspects of the aircraft. In Brooklyn's where a third of each airplane, be it an Air France one or a British Airways one, was built, actually in Brooklyn's. Um, we also have the simulator that I learned to fly on and did my six monthly checks on. And now members of the public can come and fly with me or with one of my colleagues and can fly Concord around, do a takeoff and a landing and have a lot of fun on the way. Um, we've also got the largest spare holdings of Concord, and we've also got the model that used to be at the end of the tunnel at Heathrow. Um, and when it was there, it's quite Funny, the uh it was referred to as the Concord Roundabout because it it dominated, it was a quarter-sized model, it dominated the roundabout at the end of the access tunnel at Heathrow. And about three years ago, I was um giving an after dinner speech, and uh I mentioned this. And after the speech, a a chap came up to me and he said he was a taxi driver from London, and he was telling me the story about you know how many times he'd come out to Heathrow. And he said, Mike, he said, you know that uh you said about the Concord model. I said, Yeah, he said, Well, you know that it's not been there now for almost 15 years. I said, Yeah, and he said, You know that there's a model of an A380 there now, yeah. And he said, Do you know how much it cost to have that model put there? I said, Well, no, not really. He said, Well, it costs 10 million pounds to rent the site and 15 million pounds for the model itself. So that's 25 million pounds. And he said, and us London cabbies still call it the Concord roundabout after 15 years. So um the Concorde made an impression on lots of people. The one at Bristol, of course, was the last Concord to be made and also the last Concord to actually fly when it flew into there on November 26th, 2003. Uh, each one is done slightly differently. So um the Concords around the world are major uh attractions at the museums that are fortunate enough to have them on display.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:22

John and Jennifer, would you like to talk about the Intrepid Museum in New York City?

SPEAKER_23 1:29:27

So the Intrepid uh displays Concord, as Captain Bannister explained, it's on a platform alongside the deck of the aircraft carrier. And it can be seen from the George Washington Bridge and from the West Side Highway. And people say, Oh, what's that? Uh they can also see the blackbird from the uh West Side Highway. So Concord's in very good company. And I was told by Eric Bohm, the uh curator, the aviation curator, that of all the tours at the Intrepid, and they have apparently between one and two dozen tours at different times of the year, that along with a space shuttle, Concorde is top of the list for customers. And the tours bring the uh visitors inside Concord, and they take a certain number of people. When I was there last, it was about 15 in the group, and the guides have studied the subject very, very carefully. They do an excellent job explaining about the uh operational capability of Concorde, the fact that it was the supersonic flagship of both Air France and British Airways, but they've got Alpha Delta, an award-winning special Concorde there uh at the museum.

SPEAKER_28 1:31:03

As Mike talked about museums, you know, where were we going to put these airplanes? We just didn't want them to go somewhere and just rust and deteriorate. But these airplanes were fabulous artifacts, much like the pyramids are, I guess, in Egypt. But anyway, um, we wanted the the history and the legacy of Concord to live on as long as possible. And we were looking at various marine uh museums flights, particularly where the aircraft flew. There's one airplane, there's one airplane in Barbados, for example. And the other obvious one was let's bring it to New York. And that after a lot of negotiation and looking around, you couldn't run one down Fifth Avenue in New York City, but the Intrepid was an ideal location. So we we offered it up to them. We worked with them very closely, and I'll never forget on the day uh the aircraft came, it was flown from London to JFK, rolled into a hangar, and the engines were um over a period of time, probably I don't know, it was a week or two weeks, the engines were dismantled, a lot of the electrics and other stuff disconnected to make the aircraft ready to be literally floated up the uh Long Island Sound under the Verasano Bridge and then to its future home at the Intrepid, which is uh sort of the west side of Manhattan on near 46th Street and 12th Avenue, next to some of the older cruise piers. That's where the intrepid is located. And uh it was an amazing feat. We I remember in in um, I guess it was the middle of the night, we sort of the airplane was towed to uh a point where JFK, one of the one of the runways, I think it's um 22 right and four left is adjacent to the water. And it was uh sort of rolled onto the barge or craned onto the barge rather. And then the barge tripped um out of Long Island Sound to the west under the Verasano Bridge. And the the news coverage we had at the time was unbelievable. We were on the front page of the New York Times. We were probably the first item for any TV broadcast when it came through and up the Hudson. And then it took, I think, a day or two to be craned from the barge onto the pier at uh adjacent to the Intrepid. And it is it has remained there. It's been sort of at one time in the beginning, it was sort of on its tires, but then it was jacked up so the tires wouldn't deteriorate. And there's been a lot of maintenance done on the Concord, and that's something that we were discussing earlier about the the uh extreme weather situations in the Northeast, in New York in particular. So the airplane has to withstand rain, snow, excessive heat, and uh so the uh the intrepid has a very complete and fastidious maintenance program. But it is uh the the intrepid people always say that you know it's it's one of the major highlights of the Intrepid Airspace and Sea Museum, and that uh you know thousands and thousands of people come by the come by the that enter the museum always come by and and walk under the airplane and look up. And uh you can book um excursions or tours inside the aircraft at specific times, working through the intrepid people. But as Jennifer had mentioned earlier, there are a lot of people that that know the inside and outside of the airplane very, very well and uh give an excellent description of uh the the tour when you're actually doing it.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:01

Jennifer, are there any special Concord moments that you would like to mention for our listeners?

SPEAKER_23 1:35:06

One of the um developments in the scheme that flew from 2001 onwards, and that was the wash of blue light that flowed through the cabin when Concorde reached Mach 1 speed of sound. I think this was a brilliant brave brainwave at the time because it's silent. And the idea was that passengers who were snoozing or reading their very important documents or listening to the audio channels might not want to be disturbed by an announcement. And passengers who were not snoozing were wondering what was happening because they were probably looking at the Mac meter and seeing the numbers climbing. And so this was uh a wonderful brainwave to uh organise this flow, this wash of blue light flowing through the cabin. I remember in earlier days there were various debates. Oh, what should happen when Concorde reaches Mach I? Ah, well, the typical response was we need an announcement, and the announcement was always very clear and always very helpful, but the blue light was something a bit more spiritual, a bit more artistic. And I think that that was a wonderful way to communicate with passengers, and people still talk about that product feature. So, all credit to the team that developed that particular scheme in the late days of the Concord operation.

SPEAKER_28 1:36:53

I I think to carry on on that conversation, one of the questions that I used to get asked all the time is what's it like to feel what does it feel like going through the sound barrier? And the answer was nothing. And that was the incredible aspect of being a passenger on Concorde. Yes, you you had no conception of how fast you were flying, other than the Mach meter on the bulkhead walls. You could see it climbing through Mach 2.8 and then up once it got to Mach 0.1, you break the sound barrier and you get up to Mach 2. It was incredible, but there was no actual sensation other than the landing and the takeoff of how what a what a comfortable ride this was, but the speed, you you didn't know. And um, you know, people would say, Well, does the airplane shudder when it goes through the Comcore, go through the sound barrier? Or what happens? And the answer was nothing, you don't know, other than being the receiving end of an announcement, or you're watching the mock meter on the bulkhead walls. It it was such an incredibly comfortable airplane.

SPEAKER_23 1:37:59

It it um and I could add, John, that it was uh not noisy. People have asked me on occasions, did you all have to shout at each other to speak with each other? And the answer's no. We were able to speak in a normal way. So that's another great triumph.

SPEAKER_08 1:38:21

About going through the sound barrier. It's got in the early days, I bumped into George Edwards, who was the the British senior project manager for the entire Concorde program. And he told me a lovely story about when they were doing some early test flying with passengers on board, and these were a hundred passengers um chosen from all sorts of walks of life, just to be passengers on board to try the airplane out before it actually came into service. And on this particular flight, he told me they happened to invite an 85-year-old lady who had never flown. I mean, I don't mean she'd never piloted, she had never been on an airplane. And at the end of the flight, uh, and they'd gone up to Mark II and come back and landed back again. The end of the flight, George Edwards said that he said to her, Now tell me, madam, did you enjoy your flight? And she said, Yes, it was wonderful. She said, But I was a little bit disappointed. And he said, What were you disappointed in? She said, Well, when we went through the sound barrier, the aircraft didn't vibrate and shake like I expected it to. And George Edwards said, Madam, that's the clever bit. Uh, you know, it took the designers and the engineers um so much effort and energy and brain power to enable it to do what it did. And it became so um transparent going through the sound barrier. That's why we had to make announcements from the flight deck or put the blue light in, because otherwise the customers just wouldn't know that they were now traveling faster than the speed of sound.

SPEAKER_28 1:39:53

There's one funny story that I never knew if it was true or not, but it it was uh particularly poignant for Concord, in that the Pope flew once from uh London to New York, and uh he got to JFK and came off the aircraft, but wanted to come down the stairs, not go through the the terminal jetway. And he descended the stairs and kissed the ground and said, somebody asked him, you know, what a wonderful flight this was. And they asked him what was so unique about it. What was it? It was uh it's the closest I've ever been to head office, and that that in itself, you know, spoke to the fantastic capabilities of what Concorde could do.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:42

All right, one last question for the group. Concorde has earned an important and prestigious place in history and was a groundbreaking achievement. What do you think about that? And looking back on your time with the program, how does that make you feel? Captain Bannister, let's start with you.

SPEAKER_08 1:41:02

I think, first of all, very honored and privileged to be part of such a wonderful story, especially for the seven-year-old boy who always wanted to be a pilot. And the G wizness of the airplane. You know, here's this aircraft that could travel on the edge of space where the sky got darker, where you could see the curvature of the earth 23 miles a minute, a mile every two and three-quarter seconds. You're traveling so quickly that you're arriving in New York an hour and 40 minutes before you leave London. Uh, you're you're traveling so high that you can see the curvature of the earth. You're going faster than the earth rotates. The sun is going backwards in the sky. It was so smooth that you could stand a coin on its edge on the airplane at Mark II twice as speed of sound, and it wouldn't fall over even in a 30-degree bank turn. All of that was really special. I mean, it made it such a wonderful airplane, but it was only an airplane. It was a very, very special airplane, and I think we're all very honored and privileged to have been involved with it. But what really made Concord special was the people. Um, as I touched upon, the tens of thousands of engineers and designers who uh thought of it, the people that operated it, the the crews, the pilots, the ground staff, the customers that were dedicated to flying it. British Airways flew over two and a half million people on Concord, the people uh in the UK and in the States who would stop and look up every time she flew over, and the people that are still interested in Concord today that are really regular visitors to the museums around the world to see Concord, it's it's a tribute to them. Uh, you know, the airplane was born from dreams and built with vision and operated with pride. And the mere fact that we're having this conversation uh 19 years after Concord last flew is indicative of what a very special airplane it was, but perhaps more importantly, what an amazing group of people it touched. John?

SPEAKER_28 1:43:12

I think Mike has said it all. I mean, I was very honored and privileged to be a part of the team from beginning from the British Airways beginning to the end. I flew on the airplane a couple of times before it actually went into uh commercial service, but um it it probably was a highlight of of things that I've done in my working career. It was absolutely fabulous, and I'm so grateful to British Airways to be a part of that team. And as Mike said, there is this Concord family that we'll live on. Um we're we're all we're all very, very privileged, very lucky to experience the this magnificent uh creation of aviation history. Jennifer.

SPEAKER_23 1:44:01

Well, I would like to join the group. I feel that I was greatly privileged, and it was a tremendous honour to be able to work on such a wonderful aircraft, even though it meant getting to the hangar at five o'clock in the morning quite often to climb up the gantries, because we had to test out different elements inside the cabin before Concord was rolled out for its first flight of the day. I'm talking about uh fabrics for the curtains, the carpet samples, the leather samples for the seat covers, and the accessories of food and beverage for the tray tables. So it was a tough job, and the standards were very, very high because of weight restrictions. We couldn't just use uh elements that were associated with the subsonic cabin interior programs. For example, on Concord, British Airways for the first time ever flew Travera curtains. Trevera was a synthetic fabric, it had to be aviation grade, of course, completely tested, weighing only about six or seven ounces per linear yard compared with traditional drapes, curtains separating the cabins alongside the dividers, where the weight might have been normally 14 or 15 ounces per linear yard, if we're talking about the traditional wool drapes and curtains. So there were lots of developments, very, very exciting, high-tech. And we were able to move ahead at a great rate because of this teamwork that Captain Bannister and John described. So every moment was worthwhile, even five o'clock in the morning in the hangar at the top of the gantry. And I think that the legend will live on thanks to these aviation museums that are able to arrange the displays and virtual flights and visits and presentations. The Concord legend will live forever. And I feel that I was very, very lucky to be part of that process. And it's something that I'll never forget. And I thank you, Tom, for raising all these questions because it's not a simple subject. There are so many overtones and undertones going back over the years. So I hope that this podcast will shed light on Concord unique, something that we can all treasure.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:59

Thank you. Um, anybody want to add anything else?

SPEAKER_28 1:47:04

I could I could say one thing from the PR point of view. You know, as a as a PR person, sometimes you have to struggle to get one newspaper reporter or one TV crew to come out and cover a particular story. Concorde was just a natural magnet. It was, you know, you couldn't have wished for anything better. So it was such a pleasure and delight and honor and all the rest of the the words to describe this airplane. It was a PR uh wonder.

SPEAKER_08 1:47:35

And at the same time, of course, a technical wonder. I was lucky enough once to have dinner with Neil Armstrong, and um we got chatting about all sorts of things, and we got on to the his history of a test pilot and obviously his flight to the moon. And we were talking about Concorde, and he said that, in his opinion, the the technical success of getting Concorde into operational service was right up there with the technical success of putting man on the moon. And as he added, not me, um, we stopped putting men on the moon in the 70s and when we were having the conversation in the early 2000s, we were still flying Concorde, and he considered it to be a huge, huge technical success that um we collectively had managed to succeed in doing it and were continuing to do it at that time. So it's it was technically brilliant and it was socially brilliant and aesthetically brilliant, and we were just very fortunate to be involved.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:39

Well, thank you, Captain Bannister, John, and Jennifer, for your time. Uh, we definitely appreciate you taking the time to come on the program, and best of luck to you. And uh I very much look forward to seeing the Concorde uh in person in England and Seattle, and also in New York City at The Intrepid.

SPEAKER_08 1:49:04

Thank you, T. Thank you for having us. Thank you, Tom.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:19

Pan Am was a pioneer in air travel and still stands as one of the most iconic and innovative airlines in aviation history. That legacy lives on at the Pan Am Museum in Garden City, New York, where you can explore the rich history of the aircrafts and individuals at the heart of the company known as the world's most experienced airline. For more information about the Pan Am Museum, check out our website at www.thepanammuseum.org. You can also find us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. As was once a tagline in one of our commercials, we would greatly appreciate your support to help. At flight cruise once the passengers departing for their destinations around the world. Thank you for flying, Pan M.

SPEAKER_18 1:50:50

Canadian ground, good morning. For the last time, Speedbird Concord 2, IFR, London Heathrow with Mike requesting for Kanasi Climb.

SPEAKER_21 1:50:59

And Speedbird 2, I guess for the last time we can give you that Kenasi Climb. Speedbird 2 heavy clear to London Heathrow Airport. Kennedy 9 departure, Kenasi Climb, Radar Vector ship. As filed, maintain 5,000. Expect flight level 2900 ten minutes after. Squawk 1136. And Mike is the 80th.

SPEAKER_18 1:51:23

Thanks very much indeed. And if you could pass on to your colleagues, um two or three things. Firstly, in a perfect world, we'd like to be wheels rolling at 737 local. If we can get a clearance through 105 Alpha Direct, that'd be great. But more importantly, if you pass on to all your colleagues here for the support and uh thanks for all the support and help you give us over the years.

SPEAKER_21 1:51:49

We hope you have a wonderful flight. And uh over the years it's been a privilege and an honor to uh get to work you all every day in and out of JFK and uh you certainly will be missed. We hope you have a uh a wonderful farewell flight and uh Godspeed, and we will be uh wishing you all the best as you fly over to London.

SPEAKER_18 1:52:06

That's very kind, and and thanks to all of you. I wouldn't want to name uh any but one who I understand speaking with you right for the very first day we came, Samuel Cohen. So thanks to all of you.

SPEAKER_21 1:52:15

Well he will be uh talking to you when you be uh runway, and uh ground is point nine when you're ready to taxi. Enjoy your flight.

SPEAKER_18 1:52:21

Ground point nine, Steve. Concorde two.

SPEAKER_19 1:52:26

They say 55. Right, are there any chance we can hold for the Juliet uh behind Feebird? Um well Seabird, I guess I told the last guy he's not departing for uh another twenty minutes, twenty-five minutes or so. Uh if you want to wait, I can find someplace to put a beyond time again here. Yeah, right. Left golf, right, thuly hold short Julius.

SPEAKER_18 1:53:04

Thank you very much indeed. That's that's very kind of me. We're gonna miss coming to New York.

SPEAKER_20 1:53:11

That's delicious.

SPEAKER_07 1:53:14

Thank you.

SPEAKER_19 1:53:15

And from the old cactus third. I've only been here five years, but it's about nearly as long as the next guy you're gonna talk to. But uh it's been a pleasure. Hold short of Juliet, he'll get you out right on that release time. You can monitor 119.1.

SPEAKER_18 1:53:32

People concord two, thanks very much. Um one nine point one. I guess we know who we're gonna talk to, but everyone else here has been so helpful and supportive, and uh we're very grateful for that on the mission. Canada task, Peabot Concorde 2 heavy is with you for the last time. That's great. Thank you very much indeed. We'll actually release breaks at about 3 7 and uh 50 seconds.

SPEAKER_12 1:54:00

Right.

SPEAKER_20 1:54:05

American Eagle 830, Kennedy Tower. Yes, sir, air speed bird is on the radio. We just wanted to pass along a uh best wishes at speed, and uh we're gonna miss you there. We're just a part of the war. Wish we were okay. Okay, I'm gonna say thanks for having me. American 205, you'll follow the Concord up at the uh next intersection. Feedback 2, you can plant the follow-d express. Position on hold, caution weight service upon the air bus. We have a conference heavy position on hold. Feeb 2 heavy, uh be advised. I happen to have the good luck of being here and uh issuing the first landing plans for the Concord here at GFK back in uh 77. Just want to say it's been wonderful working with your aircraft and uh wish uh good luck to all the crews and uh we're gonna miss you.

SPEAKER_17 1:55:02

Well, we're very, very grateful indeed for all your help, especially over such a long period. It's been uh great knowing you, and uh we're gonna miss you a lot. Thank you.

SPEAKER_20 1:55:14

Time now is three five, uh, your discretion. Uh you can roll through five at lift off at three seven. Win three zero zero at one three, maintain four thousand cleared for takeoff.

SPEAKER_18 1:55:25

201k 2, clear takeoff 3-1 left. We're clear to roll for meeting out of passive time. We'll start the takeoff roll at 37 and 50 and maintain 4000.

SPEAKER_19 1:55:44

Uh American 699, uh why don't you transition over to Alpha and then you can hold on Alpha and you need any assistance?

SPEAKER_20 1:55:56

Hey, ground, can we uh American 59 heavy, can we hold here for a second? Uh try we see something.

SPEAKER_19 1:56:01

Yep.

SPEAKER_20 1:56:02

Thanks.

SPEAKER_19 1:56:06

We have you, we're ready to go down. United three taxi left, two years holds coat of zero. Let's do it, hold sort of that, yeah.

SPEAKER_20 1:56:15

Speedbird two heavy contact New York departure, so long.

SPEAKER_18 1:56:23

But two heavies with you for the last time.

SPEAKER_16 1:56:26

FIBA Concord 2 Heavy, New York Departure, uh, good morning. Radar contact, climb and maintain 1300.

SPEAKER_18 1:56:32

Speedboard 2, climb maintain 1300. Speeba 2 left 150.

SPEAKER_16 1:56:40

FIBA Concord 2 Heavy, proceed direct to Lind, resume our navigation and climb and maintain 1700.

SPEAKER_18 1:56:46

FIBA 2, direct Linder, now climb 1700.

SPEAKER_16 1:56:52

Speedboard Concord 2, uh, I was the first controller to uh give you the approach current and the first flight into Kennedy. Uh so I'd like to uh thank you and the all the crews that have uh worked the flight through the years for your professionalism. Uh we'd like to wish you good luck as you uh soar towards the uh sunshine there to the east. And uh we just do appreciate uh all the uh fine professionalism and uh hard work that you guys put in through the years, and it was a pleasure for us to serve you.

SPEAKER_18 1:57:19

But two, we really appreciate thank you very much indeed. We couldn't have done any of this without the support of all of our friends and colleagues in uh the USA, particularly in uh in ATC in the USA, have been so helpful and supportive. We really do appreciate it.

SPEAKER_16 1:57:34

And contact New York Center 1283, cheer we go.

SPEAKER_18 1:57:37

128 3, uh two, have a nice day.