SPEAKER_01 0:14

Welcome to the Pan Am Podcast, brought to you by the Pan Am Museum in Garden City, New York. This podcast and our museum are dedicated to celebrating the legacy of the world's most iconic airlock, Pan American World Airways. My name is Tom Betty, and I'm the host of this program. Thank you for joining us. The Pan Am Museum Foundation is a nonprofit organization. Please visit our website for more information at the Pan Ammuseum.org. Again, our website is the Panamuseum.org. You can find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok. If you are using Apple Podcasts, please consider leaving a review. It will help others discover this program. This podcast is sponsored by the generous personal support of Mr. Adam Aaron, the CEO and chairman of AMC Theaters. He is also president of our sister organization, the Pan Am Historical Foundation. If you're not familiar with Pan Am, welcome. We are honored to have you here and for you to learn about what we're all about. If you already know of Pan Am, worked for, or flown on the airline, or just love our history, it's good to be with you again. So with that, let's get this episode in the air, so to speak. Welcome aboard your Pan American jet clipper. And to celebrate, in this episode, we explore the history of Pan Am's Nisei Stewardesses with Dr. Christine R. Yano, retired professor of anthropology at the University of Hawaii and author of the book Airborne Dreams, Nisei Stewardesses, and Pan American World Airways. But first, a couple updates on this award-winning history and humanities program. It is my great honor to announce that the Pan Am podcast has gone gold and was awarded the 2024 Gold Muse Creative Award and the 2024 Gold Vega Digital Award. These awards are both hosted by the International Awards Associate, and the competitions receive thousands of entries from across the globe, affirming their positions as prestigious programs honoring creative and design professionals. The Muse Creative Awards is a prestigious international awards competition celebrating excellence and innovation in the realms of creative design, advertising, and digital media. The Vega Digital Awards celebrates digital content creators who push boundaries in an ever-evolving digital landscape, pioneering new frontiers of creativity and innovation. A special thanks to all our listeners and supporters for making our success a reality. As of this recording, the podcast has been downloaded over 136,000 times worldwide in 169 countries. To celebrate these achievements, please consider making a tax-deductible donation to support the Pan Am podcast and keep this program commercial free so you can continue enjoying the fascinating history of the 20th century through the prism of Pan American World Airways uninterrupted. There is a link in the episode description to donate and keep this History and Humanities program commercial free. Again, thank you for listening to the Pan Am podcast. I would also like to give a shout out to Pan Am Superfan Maddox Henry on his graduation from high school. Maddox has been listening to our podcast since the beginning, and we honored him at the 2022 Pan Am Museum Gala for his infectious optimism and his dedication to introducing Pan Am to younger generations. Congratulations, Maddox. Now let's start this episode with a minute and a half clip from a 1952 Pan Am Travel Log promotional film made for American customers.

SPEAKER_09 4:52

You slept warmly in your big, comfortable berth in the Stratoclipper. Your breakfast and lunch were good. They sit snugly on your stomach. And that's how it is. Your adventure starts when you walk into the plain. Your visit to Japan begins even before you get there. As you sit now, relaxed, talking some more with your old friends. Friends you met just the night before.

SPEAKER_08 5:21

It is so determined country. But so much to do, to see, to learn. Well, it is just that we wish to be understood. Cities, sceneries, all very fine. Forgive must not spoil on adventure. But to know my country, see my people too, please.

SPEAKER_09 6:00

So you flew the Pacific. Six thousand miles by Pan American Stratom Clipper. San Francisco, Honolulu, Wake Island. And now you're here.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Remember, to know my country, see my people too. Let's take another listen to a Pan Am-produced film promoting exotic trips to Japan. This one is less than a minute from 1960.

SPEAKER_06 6:48

Coming into Tokyo is always a big surprise. The great Oriental city is changing. At first glance, it looks almost as western as New York, London, Paris. And the tranquil Japanese paste is speeded up in tempo. The tempo is still 20th century as this giant jet flipper taxis in at Tokyo's Hannida Airport. At first view, among these nine million cosmopolites, there's little sign of the past. Western style dress is everywhere now. The expensive kimonas are usually worn on special occasions only. But they've also assimilated and refined the significant elements of other Asian cultures so that now the world's largest city is one of the most colorful and exciting. Tourists come to see how this capital city has risen from the ashes of war to become a great metropolis of the world.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

The Japanese word Nisei refers to a son or daughter of Japanese immigrants who was born and educated in the United States. Or for short, Nise means second-generation Japanese American. In 1955, Pan Am began recruiting Japanese American women to work as stewardesses on its Tokyo-bound flights and for the airline celebrated round-the-world flights. Based in Honolulu, these women were informally known as Pan Am's Nisei Stewardesses, even though not all of them were Japanese-American or even second generation. They were hired for their Japanese language skills, but in reality, few spoke Japanese fluently. However, the main reason for the hiring of these women was to enhance the airline's image of exotic cosmopolitanism and worldliness as the iconic American company pioneered new frontiers of race, language, and culture. These young women left home to travel the globe with Pan M, forging their own cosmopolitan identities in the process. In 2014, students Chantel Rose Accorda, Kim Gwynn, and Jasmine Pigford interviewed Hawaii State Senator Glenn S. Wakkay for an incredible well-done class project. A link to this student video is included in the episode description. Senator Wakai's mother, Ruth, was a Pan Am stewardess for 30 years, from 1957 to 1987. Let's take a listen to his interview.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

She started at Pan Am in the 1950s. She was the first group of Pan Am stewardesses when Pan Am decided to go Trans-Pacific. Pan Am was a growing entity, and much of what their travel plans were was in North, South America as well as Europe. They wanted to expand into the Pacific after World War II and kind of during the Korean War. My mom had a unique role for the airlines because of her ability to speak, and my mom was a really nice, kind, and sweet person. She was in charge of all the orphans. And there were a lot of Americans that who were adopting children from Japan as well as Korea. So my mom would be in charge of bringing them over. Because you could you imagine you're a one-year-old, maybe a two-year-old from Japan, you're coming to a brand new life, you have no idea what to expect. It's super fearful, right? So my mom would be in charge of making sure as best she could to make that transition smooth for these little kids. And what's kind of funny was that a lot of times they were transitioning from Tokyo, from Seoul, South Korea, to the mainland. And they would arrive in Hawaii on one day, but their next connecting flight wasn't until the next day. And my mom wouldn't just leave them there at the airport for the Pan Am uh personnel to take care of. She actually took them home. She took them home to feed them, bathe them, put them to sleep, and then took them back to the airport the next day for their new life on the mainland.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

The student trio also interviewed Elaine Satani, who worked for Pan Am from 1956 to 1958. Let's take a listen to her story.

SPEAKER_03 11:11

Well, I was working at a Venetian blind company in Honolulu, and one day I received a call from a gentleman who spoke Japanese. And I answered him in Japanese. And I was a little rus rusty at the time. Both my parents are first generation Japanese. I'm Nisei. And um he asked me how tall I was, and I thought, oh my, this fella is fresh. So anyway, I answered his question and he came in and made an appointment with my um boss. Met my boss, and he said, Oh, you're tall enough. And he said, Why don't you apply at Pan Am? So my hiring was quite accidental. I was quite lucky.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Also interviewed was Mae Takahashi, who was a Pan Am stewardess from 1963 to 1969. Let's hear about her story.

SPEAKER_04 12:18

Well, you know, I was a teacher at uh an intermediate school, actually. And when I told my mother about it, she she was shocked that I was going to do that and give up my teaching career. But I told her I would fly, I would be there only for about a year. When we flew, you had to wear a hat whenever you were in uniform, except when the doors were closed on the plane. So we had to check when we checked into work, we had to be in full uniform, you always had to have a hat. And um you had to wear the hat even when you walked in the terminal, uh, when you if you stopped at a coffee shop, you always had to have your hat on and gloves.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

There's also a great video on this topic from the Japanese Cultural Center of Hawaii that we encourage you to watch after listening to this podcast. There is a link in the episode description to the video. Now on to our interview. She has conducted extensive research on Japan and Japanese Americans with a focus on popular culture throughout her career. In 2011, she published Airborne Dreams, Nisei Stewardesses, and Pan American World Airways. This book is the story of an unusual personnel program implemented by an American corporation intent on expanding and dominating the nuanced market for international air travel. That program reflected the Jet Age dreams of global mobility that excited post-war Americans, as well as the inequalities of gender, class, race, and ethnicity that constrained many of them. There is a link in the episode description to purchase this book. Her other publications include Tears of Longing, Nostalgia, and the Nation in Japanese Popular Song published in 2002, Pink Globalization, Hello Kitty, and its track across the Pacific, published in 2013, and she co-wrote Straight A's, Asian American College Students in Their Own Words, published in 2018. I'd like to welcome Dr. Christine Yano of the University of Hawaii to the Pan Am podcast. Welcome.

SPEAKER_05 15:10

Thank you so much. I'm really glad to be here, Tom. It's it's a topic that's close to my heart. It's a it's an historical topic. So it's it's always fun to engage with people who are interested in Pan Am.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

It is very much. And you and I have something in common because uh we have never worked for the airline, but we've been adopted by the Pan Am family. And I will bet that your experience is similar to mine, where when you were adopted into the Pan Am family, you are part of the family.

SPEAKER_05 15:41

Well, that kind of characterizes it, unless you get excommunicated in some way. But I hope I continue to be adopted in the Pan Am family. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

Very good. So you decided to write a book called Airborne Dreams, Nisei Stewardesses, and Pan American World Airways. And there is a link in the episode description to purchase this book. Uh, tell us why you wanted to write a book about this topic.

SPEAKER_05 16:06

Well, I'll tell you the way it came about. So I grew up in Hawaii, and the way it came about is oh, I'm not sure, maybe 10 years plus years ago, I saw this tiny little two by two ad in the newspaper when people read newspapers about just announcing that the the Nisei Stewartesses were going to have their luncheon at Oahu Country Club. And I thought that's really interesting. Um, I have a cousin who flew for Pan Am. She was like my grammar cousin. And you know, so I so I was too late. I called the number and I was too late. I missed the luncheon, but I called the number and was persistent enough that three of the Nisei stewardesses agreed to meet me at the Starbucks kind of down the street. And Nisei, by the way, means second generation Japanese Americans. And I too am Japanese American, I would be considered Sansei, so third generation. Anyway, I met with three of these women in the local Starbucks, and oh my god, their stories were now I would consider it to be a classic Pan Am stories, but each story was so vivid, each memory was so colorful, bright, and kind of shining. It was like begging to be told and retold again and again, and that's what made me do the research and write the book.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

Excellent. And let's talk about that time period because it's a very interesting time period, 1955. It is 10 years after the second world war. The world was changing uh after World War II. Can you talk a little bit about how this was you know pretty groundbreaking for Pan Am to be hiring these young ladies?

SPEAKER_05 17:56

It was. Um, you know, the the classic Pan Am stewardess model was a tall blonde, maybe with uh maybe from Europe or maybe American, but that image of Pan Am was the glamour image of the period. On the other hand, that period, mid-1950s, had a had a certain amount of fascination with Asia itself. And so that and so Pan Am's idea to expand their prototypical stewardess to include those of quote Orientals, and in academia we don't say that these days, we say Asians, to include people of Asian ancestry, to include women of Asian ancestry, possibly to include some of the exotica uh that that having that presence might lend itself to the jet cabin, was um was in some ways marketing genius, and certainly kind of led to a small little social, what I'll call achievement in terms of the corporation.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

If you can wear your professor cap for a moment, can you give our listeners kind of a snapshot of 1955, 10 years after the end of the Second World War? What was going on in culture and how was this different and good business sense?

SPEAKER_05 19:22

Well, you know, the year 1955, I thought it would be fascinating to just explore that year. So I did. I just started looking at everything, 1955, and it's amazing the confluence of historical happenings of that. The year that Disneyland opened in Anaheim, California, so the growth of American pop culture and what Disneyland represented in terms of middle class America, in terms of suburbia, and in terms of the kind of fantasy life, in effect, for the globe, in terms of developing the notion of theme park. So there's there's that. But there's also kind of race relations, and and the you know, the the black-white relations were extremely tense during that period, culminated with Rosa Parks, Emmett Hill, etc. And and so race itself became very, what shall I say, tenuous and in polite words, challenging for the United States. So at the same time that the United States had this kind of global outreach in terms of its its pop culture, in its own domestic culture, there were also issues of race. And I think that kind of combination allowed Pan Am to consider, you know, Pan Am's um model of the globe being theirs, right? And the symbol of the globe being Pan Am's was a particular refraction of an American version of the globe, which had a kind of glamour to it, which had a kind of apex sense to it, but also had this underlying kind of tensions of race involved. So that's some of the backdrop. Also, the notion of exotic Asia, I think, was very much part of that. Granted, with World War II, there were a number of Americans who fought over in Asia, who were who were stationed in Asia after the war. And so the the image of the geisha, right, is is part of the era as well. And I think that you had um veterans from World War II, ongoing issues of the Korean War after World War II that really brought Asia to America in very contentious ways.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Many of the the pilots and flight crews, especially the pilots, were veterans of World War II. And many of the people in airports were also veterans, especially the men. Can you speak to some racism that some of the ladies that you interviewed may have encountered? And and how was Pan Am different?

SPEAKER_05 22:00

Yeah, I racism within the kinds of encounters that women related to me, um, some of them are really stereotypical, especially with white male, older pilots. So structurally, you had everything in which the power would be in their hands, right? Um, as opposed to the younger, some, in this case, women of color stewardesses who only flew for a short time. So the pilots were the veterans, the stewardesses were the newcomers, right, to the to the industry. You had all kinds of power dynamics. And so stereotypically, the the pilots sometimes would assume a kind of lordship over the stewardesses. Um, I think the stories are rampant of you know, pilots, um, the partying that goes on on layovers in um in people's rooms, et cetera, et cetera. And so that was almost expected in terms of women's stories. But you know, Tom, what was interesting to me is I always asked these um Nisei flight attendants, so which kind of men were the worst? And you know, I expected the stereotypical stories of oh, that, you know, that that old lecture pilot. It's that that was the stereotype, right? The stereotype of the story. But instead, they told me the worst male passengers were the Japanese ones, the Asian men.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

Interesting.

SPEAKER_05 23:34

Who expected them to be their servants, who expected even more and differently, perhaps, of these women. One woman told me indignantly, she said, you know, he asked me to peel his grapes. And to me, she said, I don't peel grapes for these customers, but that was those were the kinds of requests, certainly a power dynamic request by Asian male passengers.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Interesting. Yes, that's that's very surprising.

SPEAKER_05 24:06

So that was it was even more, you know, those were the ones, those were the stories that were more noteworthy to them, I think, because the white male pilot, the older male pilot, that was a given. And that was so structural, it almost didn't need comment because it was such a given. It was these other times in which, you know, the kind of male supremacy reared its ugly head kind of thing, and that head was not well went beyond the older white male pilot.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

And do you think that these Japanese American women were trailblazers in the 1950s? And and can you explain a little bit about why you feel that they are?

SPEAKER_05 24:46

Well, I think that the Japanese American women, they didn't, a certain part of them had to be internally trailblazers because they were stepping out of the expected role. What they were supposed to do as good Japanese American daughters, they were supposed to be secretaries, nurses, school teachers, etc. They weren't supposed to be flight attendants, they weren't supposed to fly around the world, they weren't supposed to have that kind of what should we call cosmopolitan mobility. That was not that was not the game plan from their families. And some of the families were outraged that their daughters would want to leave home in this way and and and forbid them to fly. So trailblazers, as far as their families go, maybe at least initially, unfortunately, yes. Some of them said, Well, I'm only going to try it for a year, you know, and it's like 50 years later, she's still flying. So trailblazers, yes, but perhaps not in exactly the ways that we might expect. Um, some of them went against their families, others were others had families who were very proud of them. But the ways in which these daughters, who you'll have to understand, they had lived through World War II, and they had lived through the idea that Japanese and Japanese Americans were a kind of enemy in American eyes, you know, with internment granted, internment not so frequent in in Hawaii, but internment in general, based on race, was part of their lives. And yet they they agreed and they wanted to take the stage. That's a kind of trailblazing that I think is important to consider.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

It brings to mind George Takay from Star Trek, Mr. Sulu.

SPEAKER_05 26:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:53

He was in an internment camp during World War II. And you know, for our listeners, uh, I I believe they already know. Um, I'm a big fan of Franklin D. Roosevelt and Eleanor Roosevelt, but the whole internment camp is definitely a black mark on his record. Absolutely. Uh and George Decay would talk about even during World War II living in this internment camp, that his parents were very patriotic and pro-American.

SPEAKER_03 27:24

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

And it it and your story just brings, I don't know why I brought that up, but uh it it just brings it reminds me of George DeKay's story.

SPEAKER_05 27:34

So I think you have to take George Takei's story as a kind of template of Japanese American reaction to being interned. Most were not defiant, most were absolutely um compliant, um, wanting to toe the line, wanting to prove that they too were American. They wanted to be good citizens, they wanted to be accepted. And that that is kind of the picture of these women. Um the ways that they might place themselves on a global stage, that is, these women, is something that their parents didn't necessarily want or dream for them, but they took it upon themselves. They had just that taste of wanting to go beyond home or extend themselves beyond the familiar, right? So your initial question about trailblazers, yes, I would say, especially given the ways in which they were raised and the kind of historical conditions in which they live through, that takes uh a certain amount of, what should we say, guts.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

Tell us some stories. So you interviewed many Nisei flight attendants.

SPEAKER_02 28:45

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

And Pan Amherst, everyone has stories to tell.

SPEAKER_05 28:51

Oh my gosh. Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

So if you can share some of the stories that you heard with our listeners.

SPEAKER_05 28:58

I think one of the most memorable ones was was from a woman who was still flying when I interviewed her and very attractive, and coming from what should I say, upper middle class family in Hawaii. She had gone to private school, um, etc. And when she told her parents that she wanted to fly for Pan Am, and you have to take this this notion of what kind of family she came from, she her family was was such that whenever there was a male caller on the phone for her, her mother would always want to know is he Japanese? Is he going to be a professional person? So those were the criteria under which she could date, right? So this kind of cloistered life, the idea of bringing uh of this family grooming their prized daughter, right? Um, and and so when she told that family that she wanted to fly, period, much less fly for Pan Am and then leave Hawaii, leave America, travel the world, all this all that Pan Am implied for that period, other people may have thought it was glamorous. Her peep her family thought it was absolutely heretical to the way in which she was raised. And she recalls the fan the family meeting in which all her parents, her grandparents, her aunts and uncles lined up on one side of the room, and she was on the other side of the room, and they faced her and they said, You will bring disgrace upon us, you cannot shame us this way, etc. Except she had one uncle who said, Let her try, let her try. All lined up against her, right? To give it a try. And again, she is one who only married very late in life. She did not marry a Japanese, she did not marry a professional man, and she her her love affair was really with Pan Am.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

You know, for our listeners, Pan Am unfortunately sold the Pacific Division in 1986, and many of these Nisei flight attendants were transferred to United, correct?

SPEAKER_05 31:28

That's right, from the Pacific, yeah. The uh the Atlantic routes I think flew transferred to Delta, maybe? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:36

In 1991. So a lot of these flight attendants would work for United, but they always had a loyalty to Pan Am.

SPEAKER_05 31:44

Oh yeah, I know. Uh and they they rue that their transfer over to United. It was very difficult for a lot of them. And you know, they the way they talk about it to me, and this is nothing against United, but it is to say that each each airline had their own particular culture of hospitality. And Pan Am's culture of hospitality, as your listeners know, was is sort of the best of the best, with a slight air of haughtiness that comes with sophistication, elegance, caviar, champagne, that whole image, right? Um, and that was Pan Am. And they were so very proud of that. So when they went to United, and it was kind of this downhole friendliness, you know, hi y'all, kind of kind of thing, it it took them aback. And many just had to swallow it and say, you know, we never really we never really liked the United Way because we were all trained and we're so proud of our Pan Am way. And so, you know, it was it was a tough thing. And I I remember there was one flight attendant who told me that what she did with her her United uniform was she tweaked it, she panmed it. And what she did was she she cut the buttons off and she changed those all to pan Am buttons. Oh, so yeah, and you know, no one maybe very few people would notice except her, but this is what this is the way in which she could finally wear that United uniform.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

Yeah, interesting.

SPEAKER_05 33:24

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

What other stories do you have? So these young ladies were traveling all over the world, India, oh yeah, Africa, Europe, you name it. If Pan Am flew there, these ladies were flying there as well.

SPEAKER_05 33:44

Absolutely, right. And not only that, but they were they were celebrated for being the exotic woman on board. You know, uh, Pan Am had routes one and two, so round the world flights, right? They were famous for that. And they were the only flight attendants, these Nisei stewardesses who stayed with the plane the whole time. So whereas other crews changed in and out, they were the ones that stayed on board all the way around the world. So it was exhausting, right? But it was almost, and this is, I mean, I don't want to sound derogatory, but it was almost like they kind of came with the equipment, yeah. You know, in a sense that they were they were that that element, um call it what you will. I don't want to say any more because I, you know, but um they did. No, I asked, you know, oftentimes um about as as we were talking earlier about sexual harassment, um, and um there was plenty. There was plenty, but it's always interesting to me what stories people choose, because as with the you know, the the white male um pilot, because it's such a given, those are not stories that they choose to tell me. For me, I mean for them, the the stories that are more story worthy are ones that you wouldn't expect, perhaps, right? Um, so another kind of story of sexual harassment that you wouldn't necessarily expect. So um apparently when they first at least first started flying, they shared rooms, right? And they shared and sometimes they were paired with whoever. But the the the woman that was talking to me said she shared a room with a European, someone from Europe. And I forget now which country could have been from Sweden, I can't remember exactly. And so her story was what shocked her. So you'll have to think of the kind of the rather conservative life that these women lived prior to flying, conservative lives of, you know, um, just knowing Hawaii basically. Um so the the shocking thing for her was that the European flight attendant with whom she was rooming, when she was in the room, was totally naked and would walk around totally naked, and that's how, you know, and and for her, this made her so uncomfortable. Um, she actually asked to change rooms and and she did. So those kinds of sexual harassment stories were um unusual to them or startling to them, and really shook their world view of what's happening.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

We're gonna take a quick break with a pan and commercial for the Japanese market in the early 1980s.

SPEAKER_10 36:49

I'm not gonna fight.

SPEAKER_01 37:28

Any other stories that come to mind about your the interviews that you conducted?

SPEAKER_05 37:33

Hmm. I mean, there were so many, Tom, as you can imagine. They um they recall helping um Henry Kaiser. And Henry Kaiser was an industrialist who developed much of Hawaii, et cetera, who built resorts, who built whole kind of housing developments in Hawaii, and you know, helping him on with his pajamas and things like that. But you know, flight attendants in those days had to. Um these were long flights, this is before jets, overnight flights, et cetera. So the um, and you know, in those days too, flat Pan Am flew all first class, basically. Economy class was something that was developed later. So, especially servicing an all-first class flight, you know, having the little the little touches that they had to they had to do. I would always ask, who was the nastiest celebrity? There were a number of stories there, but maybe I shouldn't tell them.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

Oh, please. Well, please tell us a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 38:33

Oh, oh my gosh, can I really say it? All right. So apparently, well, for because more than one woman said this, the the nastiest celebrity was Lucia Ball.

SPEAKER_01 38:48

Yes, I've heard this before.

SPEAKER_05 38:50

Okay, okay, I'm glad I'm not the only one saying that. You're not the only one.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

In Pan Amherst, when they when they talk about difficult passengers, that's what they call them, difficult passengers.

SPEAKER_05 39:00

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 39:01

Yeah. But yes, I heard that she was very difficult and demanding.

SPEAKER_05 39:04

Yes, demanding was was was the main thing, and you know, just treated them like very, very lowly servants.

SPEAKER_01 39:12

Yes, you're not the the first person that told told me that.

SPEAKER_05 39:16

But I am so glad because I just didn't want to be the one to out and snowball. But I guess I guess many, many people, especially in Hollywood, would already know this. So it's it's old, it's an old story, but it was a new one for me.

SPEAKER_01 39:30

So you're a professor of anthropology.

SPEAKER_05 39:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 39:34

When you talk about the Nisei stewardesses and when you talk about Pan American World Airways, what do you say to your students and how do they receive that information?

SPEAKER_05 39:46

Well, of course, Tom, we're talking decades ago. These students were not even uh who flew Pan Am and their family? Their grandparents, their great-grandparents. So it's you know, it's such ancient history to them. The Vietnam War is ancient history. But anyway, so I think I position it as a race story, a gender story, and a story of post-war America in its in terms of its global reach. And it was really significant that you know that and and Pan Am had its own sense of the bragging rights of an airline that could say, and welcome on board, on this flight we have people who can speak that and name the languages, right? Because what's important to note is that the women were officially hired for language, so they were these were the Japanese language positions on flight, even if um it it the implication was that these are ethnically, racially Japanese. And one thing to say about that was there were some of the the Japanese, the Nisei flight attendants who could speak some Japanese, but but Tom, what surprised me is that a number of them could not.

SPEAKER_01 41:09

Interesting.

SPEAKER_05 41:11

So so what Pan Am did was it's like you don't speak Japanese, no problem. We will teach you Japanese, and so they would have tutoring in in Japanese language. So this notion that we are hiring for Japanese language, for example, here, was kind of thinly veiled for we are hiring to get the exotic Asian woman on board as one of our flight attendants. So, you know, the um it was just that was a funny thing. And so the those who could not speak had their um their their what they had to say all printed out that would be memorized. Now that's the same as today. I mean, you and I have seen those flight attendants reading off their phones exactly what they have to say at the beginning and ending of flights, granted, granted. But the other thing to note though is that you would think, well, why would why would an airline need Japanese language flight attendants? Maybe because there were Japanese passengers on board. And inasmuch as I did mention a Japanese man and his demands earlier, there were actually very few Japanese on board because this was before regular Japanese could fly internationally. So after World War II, flying internationally was prohibited for Japanese. So clearly there wasn't that much demand by passengers for Japanese language. There was not Japanese language necessarily ability by the Nisei stewardesses. So all this in my mind points to hiring Asian women as a kind of a mark of exotica, a mark of achievement that Pan Am was truly a global airlines. It truly had mastery of the globe because here was our display of the globe, and having an Asian woman there be there as part of that display was extremely important.

SPEAKER_01 43:21

Was there any other companies that did anything in the same ballpark as Pan American with this in regards to this?

SPEAKER_05 43:30

Yeah, um, I believe there was might have been British overseas, um BOAC. Um, but you know, the thing about Pan Am is it it became the industry standard globally. So whatever Pan Am did, the rest of the industry followed. So yeah, sure, there were sprinklings of hiring a non white here and there. It's true, it's true, but it was only a sprinkling, it did not start any. Movement, it did not become a phenomenon until Pan Am did it. And that was the power of Pan Am, right? That it really was capturing the globe with its with its routes, with a sense of service. And that service included having an Asian female on board.

SPEAKER_01 44:21

Anything else you'd like to add to our interview?

SPEAKER_05 44:24

Well, you know, um I also did some work with the with the flight attendants from Japan itself, rather than Japanese Americans only. And their stories are um extremely interesting. In some ways, the flight attendants from Japan were taken from a higher social strata because you'd have to think of who could speak English in Japan. And for those for in Japan at the time, it was only those with a certain level of education. And I would say so, so for the Japanese flight attendants from Japan, they were more upper middle class. And so it was very interesting to deal with them. But I would suggest that theirs was a different kind of phenomenon than the Japanese-American flight attendants, some of whom came from not wealthy families at all. Some were from families of fishermen, et cetera, et cetera. But uniformly, I think what was so impressive, you might consider it being, you know, incorporated to the Pan Am family. I was for me, it was being somewhat agog at the kind of the Pan Am-ness or Pan Am as a phenomenon, the Pan Am as an experience. One stewardess characterized herself and others as raging extroverts. Maybe you agree, dealing with the Pan Am people that you do. Now, I wouldn't say that all the Japanese American were raging extroverts, and that is certainly not the typical kind of personality profile that I would suggest of Japanese and Japanese Americans, but they had enough, what shall I call it, Hutzpah, maybe? That's not very Japanese, but they had enough personal initiative to want to do the non-traditional, because this was definitely non-traditional, to not become the um, as I said, in Hawaii, you know, the school teachers, the nurses in Japan, it would be the wives of the business execs. They had enough to say that I want to leave, I want to experience more personally, and it changed them. It changed them.

SPEAKER_01 46:36

Let me ask you this question. How did the native Japanese flight attendants, those who were born and lived in Japan, and the Japanese American flight attendants, how did they get along?

SPEAKER_05 46:50

Well, you know, um the Japan, for one thing, the Japanese-American flight attendants were hired first, started that that hiring started uh first in 1955. The the Japanese from the uh native Japanese uh flight attendants were hired later. And they, you know, they got along, but there was there was always a difference, and and all of them would recognize that difference right away. Right away. There wasn't competition amongst them, I think. And besides, they didn't fly together so much. I mean, if there's going to be a Japanese language position, you don't need necessarily two on a flight, right? So they were they were handling the positions were held singly rather than in groups. But they all, I think what binds them and continues to this day, what binds them is really being part of the family the the Pan Am family. And it really does does bind them. Um, and I was I've always been very impressed by that. Um, and just a bit of something about you know the process of doing the research, writing the book. And because to me, the whole that whole process, usually for a scholar, it's very arduous. You know, you do this kind of detailed work, it's a lonely work, it's a lonely affair, and you do this in dusky archives, dusty archives or something. But in this case, everything it didn't just fall into my lap, Tom, it jumped into my lap. And this was the Pan Am way, you know, I get people calling, don't you want to interview me? Or don't you? I had this, I had this other friend who you you really should interview. And I so the interviews just heaped up upon themselves so very quickly. And then the notion of because I ended up um working at uh or having a year at the Smithsonian Um National Airspace, Air and Space Museum using their archives, and that too became a kind of Pan Am connection. And everything became a connection to a connection to connection, paving this Pan Am way forward in terms of research, in terms of writing the book. So everything was was kind of this, what shall I say, this um kind of just thrust of excitement, almost to a certain extent, of glamour, still, still, um, and and really just pushing ahead this. Um, when I was at the Smithsonian, I did spend one weekend in December at the Pan Am Archives in at the University of Miami. And knowing that I was going there, I contacted the very few people I knew associated with it. And I had I had happened to hit the Miami on the anniversary of Pan Am's last flight. And at that, on that weekend, there were three plus four events that were all intensely social, um with with Pan Am people, Pan Am fans, whether it was a sale of Pan Am items or the Pilots Association having uh a dinner or the World Wings having their dinner and get together. And I was and I was exhausted because that short weekend, I'd be out every night later than my early bedtime. And they'd be taking me around the car and I'd be sleeping. And I could hear them saying, Oh, you know, she's really not Pan Am. Look at her, she's so tired. I'm a mere mortal, I'm a mere mortal, Tom. And I I seriously could not keep up with the Pan Am flight attendants and pilots. Oh my god, and they are considerably older than me.

SPEAKER_01 50:46

I've I have the same experience. I do indeed. Um, but they're they're just the the greatest group of people I've met.

SPEAKER_05 50:56

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And and just and greatest for their generosity, but greatest for also their kind of can-do approach. Oh, you need this here, here, use a safety pin. Uh, you know, so they're used to uh they're scrappy at the same time that they're gracious and know how to put on a hell of a party.

SPEAKER_01 51:21

Yeah, very resourceful. Very you know, what's the problem? Let's fix it.

SPEAKER_05 51:26

Yeah, yeah. And can I just I'll uh just one little example is for example, I did a short film with these Nisei Stewartesses, um, just seven or eight of them, just short interviews, et cetera. And um one of them, and and they all came, they they look great in my mind. One of them, after she did a little interview on camper camera interview, wanted to see it. So she was looking at um, you know, the replay, and she said, Oh, my collarbones are sticking out too much. She was rather thin. So she had um, so what did she do? She had on a black sheath dress, okay, um, sleeveless, um, I think, yeah, with a v-neck. All right. So she felt the v-neck showed her collarbones too much. So she goes to the bathroom, she wears it backwards. It covers it covers her collarbones. She looks absolutely fantastic. She looks stunning. And it was again that that Pan Am can do. Something's wrong. Okay, I'm gonna fix it. It's it's that kind of, you know, um, extreme resourcefulness. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:37

Very good. Well, thank you very much for your time. Uh, your book, Airborne Dreams, Nisei Stewardesses, and Pan American World Airways. Uh, last question. Your book has been in print since 2011. How does that make you feel that people are still talking about your book after more than a decade?

SPEAKER_05 52:58

You know, Tom, whenever I'll let me answer it by just saying whenever I give a public talk on Pan Am, and it could be in Ohio, it could be in Honolulu, it could be in New York, always, always I get the Pan Am fans who find out about it and come and listen. So my feeling is yes, the airline has gone out of business. Yes, most of the flight attendants are no longer flying. All of that is yes. On the other hand, that kind of fascination, fandom for maybe the the whole glamour era of Pan Am and what that represents is something that is that is lasting. Of course, there was that rather short-lived TV series. So I think Pan Am or something like it speaks to a global audience who wants, who wants, what shall I say, wants the glamour, wants the pretty things, wants that raging extrovert to lead them, lead their own lives in terms of a better self, maybe, that goes beyond themselves, like these stewardesses did, beyond what their parents' expectations were of themselves, beyond their own expectations. So this notion of Hanan as perhaps leading people beyond expectations is, I think, the real frontier that it broke and is continuing to break.

SPEAKER_01 54:27

That's a very good way of putting it. Well, Dr. Yano, it has been a great pleasure to speak with you. Um, the book is available on Amazon and wherever you buy books, Barnes and Noble. Uh, there is a link in the episode description to purchase this book. And again, I can't thank you enough for your time.

SPEAKER_05 54:48

Thank you, Tom. Thank you, Tom. And you know, the women would be so pleased to know that this book continues their sales because that was they they want to spread the Pan Am gospel in some ways, as you well know. And I will say that I am a bit envious of your position in continual contact with Pan Am of some sort or other. So best of luck to you, Tom.

SPEAKER_01 55:11

Well, thank you very much.

SPEAKER_05 55:13

Thank you. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_01 55:20

Pan Am was a pioneer in air travel and still stands as one of the most iconic and innovative airlines in aviation history. That legacy lives on at the Pan Am Museum in Garden City, New York, where you can explore the rich history of the aircraft and individuals at the heart of the company known as the world's most experienced airline. For more information about the Pan Am Museum, check out our website at www.thepanmuseum.org. You can also find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok. As was once a tagline in one of our commercials, we would greatly appreciate your support to help the Pan Am Museum continue making the going great. You can also support the museum by shopping on our online store for all things Pan Am accessories, apparel, jewelry, books, models, and posters. We want to hear from you. If you have a question for us or want to share your story, our email address is podcast at thepanammuseum.org. We're going to close out this episode with another early 1980s Pan Am commercial for the Japanese market. As flight crews once said to passengers departing for their destinations around the world, thank you for flying, Pan Am.