SPEAKER_03 0:14

Welcome to the Pan Am Podcast, brought to you by the Pan Am Museum in Garden City, New York. This podcast and our museum are dedicated to celebrating the legacy of the world's most iconic airlock, Pan American World Airways. My name is Tom Betty, and I'm the host of this program. Thank you for joining us. The Pan Am Museum Foundation is a nonprofit organization. Please visit our website for more information at the Pan Ammuseum.org. Again, our website is the Panamuseum.org. You can find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok. If you are using Apple Podcasts, please consider leaving a review. It will help others discover this program. This podcast is sponsored by the generous personal support of Mr. Adam Aaron, the CEO and chairman of AMC Theaters. He is also president of our sister organization, the Pan Am Historical Foundation. If you're not familiar with Pan Am, welcome. We are honored to have you here and for you to learn about what we're all about. If you already know of Pan Am, worked for, or flown on the airline, or just love our history, it's good to be with you again. So with that, let's get this episode in the air, so to speak. Welcome aboard your Pan American jet clipper. 89-year-old Pan Am Captain Stu Archer joined the airline in 1965 as an engineer after serving in the U.S. Air Force. Stu began flying the 727 and then was promoted to captain on the 747 and later Airbus A300 and A310. He stayed with Pan Am until 1991, then went on to work for Delta Airlines as a captain. When he reached the then mandatory retirement age of 60 after three years as a Delta captain, he successfully took the company to court, forcing the airline to keep him as an engineer and worked for another seven years before retiring in 2000. Many credit his lawsuit as one of the reasons the mandatory age was raised to 65. Stew credits his uncle, Lawrence Archer, as his aviation inspiration. Born in 1903, Lawrence was one of the early pilots trained by the Wright brothers and was the first person to deliver mail by air in New England. Uncle Lawrence took Stew on his very first flight in a single-engine open-air cockpit by-wing plane when he was six years old, and this forever changed the trajectory of his life. Lawrence Archer gave his life in service to his country in 1945 during World War II, serving in the U.S. Army Air Corps. Stew's daughter Deborah Archer joined Pan Am as a flight attendant in 1979 and worked for the airline until the end in 1991. Afterward, she hung up her wings and became a nurse. She sadly passed away in 2009. Stu's son, Captain Jeffrey Archer, followed in his father's footsteps and became a pilot for American Airlines in 1991 and became captain in 1995. And now his grandson, Stephen Archer, Jeffrey's son, carries on the family legacy started by his great uncle and was recently promoted to captain with Envoy Air, a subsidiary of American Airlines. All three of these captains will be joining us to talk about their passion for flying and careers in aviation. A special thank you to American Airlines for allowing Jeff and Steven to participate in this interview. If you are thinking about starting a career in aviation and want to be a pilot for American Airlines, visit the Cadet Academy at Acadettacademy.com. There is a link in the episode description. The Pan Am Museum also encourages you to visit the American Airlines C.R. Smith Museum in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. This museum is named after aviation pioneer and former president of American Airlines, Cyrus Rolette Smith, and has been open since 1993. Like the Pan Am Museum, the C.R. Smith Museum is a nonprofit 501 organization and would appreciate your financial support to continue to inspire future aviation professionals of all backgrounds through its confidence-building education programs, exhibits, and heritage collection. Their website is crsmithmuseum.org, and there is a link in the episode description. A couple updates on this program before our interview with the Archer Captains. The Pan Am podcast has been downloaded over 140,000 times in 173 countries and over 8,000 cities. The program has won many awards and has gone gold this year with the 2024 Gold News Creative Award and the 2024 Gold Vega Digital Award. A special thank you to everyone listening. Here's a preview of the next two episodes of this program. Next up is episode 49, where we will be exploring the incredible life of the most famous costume designer in Hollywood history, Ms. Edith Head. What's the Pan Am Connection? Because there always is one. She designed Pan Am uniforms in the 1970s. Actor Susan Clausen will be our guest. And to mark our third anniversary and celebrate our 50th episode, we'll be joined by the granddaughter of Juan and Betty Tripp, Wendy Tripp, along with Pan Am Museum Curator John Ludich. In that episode, we'll be exploring the life of Kathleen Clare, who served as Juan Tripp's executive assistant for decades and was close to the Tripp family and Pan Am employees alike. We will also have audio clips of Ms. Clare talking about her Pan Am experience to play for you courtesy of the Pan Am Historical Foundation. Again, we would like to thank all of our listeners for the continued support of this program. If you like what you're hearing, please consider supporting the Pan Am Museum Foundation with a recurring tax-deductible donation. There is a link in the episode description. Also, you may have noticed a new feature. You can text us a message through the podcast episode description, and we would love to hear from you. However, if you want us to reply back, please include your email or phone number, as there is no way for us to message you back otherwise. Now on to our interview with Captain Stu, Jeff, and Stephen Archer. We have a family of aviators, the Archer family. I'd like to welcome to the program Stu Archer, Pan Am Captain from 1965 to 1991. Welcome, Stu.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Hi, welcome to be aboard.

SPEAKER_03 7:59

And Jeffrey Archer, welcome aboard. Thanks for having me. Jeffrey is a captain for American Airlines. He started in 1991 and got his captain wings in 1995. And Steven Archer, Stu's grandson, is a captain for Envoy Air for American Airlines. Welcome to the program, Steven. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me. First of all, there's always a Ohio connection to everything. So, Jeffrey, I understand that you were born in Ohio, so you are a buckeye for life. And Steven, I understand that you, your last check ride was from Columbus to Miami. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_02 8:42

Um, it was one of my IOEs as a captain coming from Columbus to Miami.

SPEAKER_03 8:47

And I understand that there was a passenger on board, a member of the Pan Am Museum, John Rinaldi, whose mother, Judith, was a flight attendant for many years. He flew all of the 747s all over the world uh as a Pan Am kid and knew Stu Archer and would uh bring his camcorder on all his trips as a teenager. And he recognized the name Archer. And then what happened, Steven?

SPEAKER_02 9:14

Yeah, it was it was pretty funny. I don't know if you saw me standing around at the gate. There's a little bit of uh a wait for the agent to show up. It was it was early morning coming out of Columbus. Or if you saw the name tag there, or when I do my PAs, I always say, Hey, good morning, folks. It's Captain Archer, blah blah blah. If you recognize then, but yeah, we got up to cruise altitude, and the flight attendant calls me from the back. She says, Hey, uh, got a passer back here who thinks he knows your dad really well. I'm like, What? What are you talking about? He's like, Yeah, uh, this guy's name's John Rinaldi. I'm like, Oh, cool. Uh tell him to wait around when we get to Miami, I'll say hi. Whatever, we get into Miami, and uh sure enough, here comes John smiling, shaking my hand, telling me stories, and uh it wasn't my dad, it was actually Stu with uh with Pan Am. He's like, Oh, you're the grandson, and we exchange contacts, and here we are now.

SPEAKER_03 10:10

It's yeah, it's there's always a Pan Am story to everything. I just love being able to tell these kinds of stories. So Pan Am somehow was blessing your promotion to captain because one of your check rides was this flight, and you know, that's just great. Don't you think, Stu? That's like perfect.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

Yeah, that that was unbelievable.

SPEAKER_03 10:32

All right, so Captain Archer, I'm sorry, Captain Archer, all of you are Captain Archer. Captain Stu Archer, why don't we start with you? Tell us about how you got into aviation, especially through your uncle.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

Well, it's interesting. My uncle was a pilot uh there in upstate New York. I would see him and go to the airport and uh see him, but this one day I was able to get a ride with him. He took me up in a in a biplane, and and oh, I just absolutely loved it. He had a guy uh there working uh selling tickets for me, would take people up and give them rides and rolls and spins and loops and everything. And but anyway, he was the he was the beginning of it. And I I was always going to he was gonna start an airline once he got out of the air force, but unfortunately uh he flew in World War II flying fighters in Europe and then went flying the Himalayas on his way back about March 45, I think it was coming back, and he flew all his missions and everything. And he was a pastor riding back, and the airplane uh went into a mountainside, and virtually everybody was was killed except one. And I got the story from him on the everything that happened up in the Himalayas and uh with a survivor. The airplane hit a mountain, one of the natives went down, took two days running down to in Tibet to the a uh rubber plantation, and anyway, they finally uh some rescue came, and about a month later they got the survivor out and he told his story. And I was fortunate to be able to get the complete story from both the survivor and and but that I after that man, I I always wanted to fly. I loved it.

SPEAKER_03 12:24

So all of these years later, so you were you your first flight was in the late 1930s, correct? With your uncle? Right, about right.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

1939, I was about five years old.

SPEAKER_03 12:36

All right, so 1939. Could you ever have imagined that your son and grandson would follow you into the air as captains?

SPEAKER_01 12:46

Never. That's that was really an unbelievable. No, I would never have guessed that in my life. No, I would never guess that. But uh it it it it happened that way, and uh absolutely amazing. And I'm I'm I'm I'm so proud. I and my uncle would have been so proud if he if he could see what what he uh generated uh uh the influence that he had on us, had on me particularly. But uh Jeff got excited about it, and then uh Steven got excited about it, and here we are.

SPEAKER_03 13:21

And also your daughter, the the late Deborah, uh was a Panam flight attendant from 1979 to 1991. So this is a true aviation family.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

Exactly, yeah, and and I got to fly with her a couple times, and and I never got to fly with my son as a pilot, but uh he was with me uh as a as a passenger, and uh we had a took him to London, Miami, London on one of the trips, but anyway, yeah, and I'm sure that affected him too.

SPEAKER_03 13:50

And have you ever flown as a passenger on either Jeff or Steven's flights?

SPEAKER_01 13:55

No, but I would love to that, yeah. We I don't think I've I don't think I've ever been on a on a flight where he was a captain. Uh we've been on airplanes together, but not with him flying.

SPEAKER_03 14:07

And Jeff and Steven, is this something that you want, or are you afraid that he's gonna critique you and have a whole checklist of stuff that, oh well, you know, the landing was pretty rough.

SPEAKER_04 14:18

You know, what's funny is I'm giggling because I would absolutely love to have my father on the flight, but that's exactly Kirk Tech. Correct. He would more than likely critique me and say, Oh, that was fantastic. But I noticed uh, you know, you came down a little firm on the landing, gave me a navy landing. So yeah, it would be a joy, but also uh just uh no, it'd be nothing but awesome.

SPEAKER_03 14:41

And Steven, what is your thought?

SPEAKER_02 14:43

Yeah, I I think it would be pretty cool, you know. Um definitely there'd be a critique going on, but I don't think you'd give me a hard time at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_03 14:51

I'm not sure. Those Pan Am standards are still fresh in his mind.

SPEAKER_04 14:56

That's kind of what I was thinking about.

SPEAKER_03 15:00

Let's talk about airplanes for a moment before we get into some Pan Am history and also talk about American Airlines. Uh, what are some of your favorite planes? Uh, either military, civilian, passenger, what have you? Let's start with you, Stephen.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

Well, I really like the Embraer 175 I'm on now. It's uh the biggest plane I've flown, you know, very modern. Cockpit's great, handles really well. Yeah, I I really like the 175. It's it's a it's a great bird. It really is. And Jeff, how about you?

SPEAKER_04 15:34

You know, I've actually had uh an opportunity to fly a lot of really very fun aircraft, you know, from the reciprocating aircraft to turbine air turbine aircraft and now the jet air. Something that comes to mind is was I was with my dad down at Homestead Air Force Base, and it was the first time I got to see the Thunderbirds. And at that time, the Thunderbirds were using the T-38s, and the laser sharp edges of that aircraft and what they were able to do always was intriguing. And still, and I understand NASA still uses them today as uh as a training aircraft. So that has always been one of my coolest. Obviously, never got a chance to fly it, but uh from a commercial aircraft, I would have to say that the 7.5 and the 7.6, the Boeing age of those aircraft, that was an amazing aircraft to fly. And now that I'm on the Airbus, you know, a different era, it's an amazing piece of equipment, uh, super smooth. Customers love it, uh, and very fuel efficient. So corporate really likes it to do the same job and carry the same amount of loads that we need. But uh very, very, very honored to be able to have the opportunity to fly uh the Airbus that I'm at now.

SPEAKER_03 16:49

And Stu, this is a loaded question. What is your favorite airplane?

SPEAKER_01 16:55

Well, when I was in the Air Force, I absolutely loved flying the super constellation. I flew that for about six years and just absolutely loved it. And I flew the 130, which I enjoyed. Uh, I'd never been on an airplane that was so versatile. And uh, we did a lot of a lot of crazy things, uh flying in the Himalayas, uh working with the Indians, supplying uh tanks and free-falling fuel and and ammo and everything. Uh with Pan Am, uh, I started on a 727 and I really, I really loved it. Really a nice airplane. But I think the the 747, I just really loved that particular airplane. I I really enjoyed it. I was on it for about 10 years or so, maybe just a little more than that. But anyway, I love the 747 and the passengers loved it, and it was a beautiful airplane to fly.

SPEAKER_03 17:49

And Jeff, you mentioned Navy landings, and for our listeners, this is a treat uh because we have an Air Force guy um that can tell us the difference between an Air Force landing and a Navy landing, and some passengers can tell the difference.

SPEAKER_04 18:06

Oh, that they can. So the Air Force Landing uh pilots take pride in making it nice and smooth because they usually have a lot of runway to work with, in the most part. Navy landings, on the other hand, are are used to landing on a very small Navy ship aircraft carrier, which is a very narrow, so they have a tendency to spot point it, and that's what they're trained to do. It's very firm, but it's solid and it's you know consistent.

SPEAKER_03 18:34

All right, let's uh jump into Pan Am history, Stu. So um you started with Pan Am in 1965, uh during the 707 jet age, but uh a few years before you almost joined Eastern Airlines. Tell us about that, and then tell us about how you joined Pan Am.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

I flew Connie's in the Air Force, and I grew up around Eastern uh pilots all the time. While I was in the air force, I would see uh the folks at Eastern, my neighbors, and they basically uh they were senior pilots and they said, Man, whatever you want, come on, we'd love to have you at Eastern. So I was always planning on going to Eastern. I was a predominant airline in Miami at the time. But I was offered a regular commission in the Air Force, and but I was gonna be committed for a number of years, so I came down to Miami to see about going with with Eastern, and uh this was in about 50, 58, 59 time frame. They said, uh Stu, uh, we'd love to have you, but right now, gonna be layoffs with the airlines. I would recommend not getting out of the air force at this time uh because there's gonna be a humongous layoff. So I went back and stayed with the Air Force, and it was and I was I was flying international my whole career, and uh, and the more I thought about it, you know, that's the same thing that Pan Am was doing. And I knew Pan Am uh, you know, I'd been at the terminal as a as a kid here in Miami and they had the seaplanes and everything there. Anyway, so I interviewed with two or three airlines and uh the interview with Pan Am was just fantastic. I really wanted to go there, and yeah, they offered me a they offered me a a job. So I I was actually flying it out of Europe at that time, and the Air Force said, Hey, if you ferry an airplane back to uh Columbus, Ohio again, we're we're at the connection with Columbus. If you fly fly an airplane, ferry an airplane back to Columbus, you can get out on arrival, and then I I can make I can join uh Pan Am in 64. And so I ferried the airplane back, and when I got to Ohio and went to get do my paperwork to get out, they said, Oh, you owe us another year. So I got stuck in the Air Force till uh October 65, and then I was able to get out and come with Pan Am, which I really, really, uh, really loved it. In fact, if it's kind of funny, they hired me in New York as an engineer. About a week later, they decided they want us to be navigators, they needed navigators. So I went to the chief pilot and said, Hey, uh, you hired me as an engineer. I want to be an engineer. And he said, Well, he looked at my paper and he says, Yeah, we we we want to keep you. I said, uh the first of the month they're gonna have another class in Miami as engineers, and why don't you put me in that class? He said, if you weren't with Pan Am, I'd put you down there right now. So I handed him a resignation and he looked at me. He said, Okay, but I better not ever hear about this. So he said, Show up in Miami next week. And so that's how I got started.

SPEAKER_03 21:48

Uh Steven, back to the story of John Rinaldi talking to you in Miami when you landed about your grandfather, and I'm sure he said what I'm About to say, and I've been warned by Jeff forced you to uh cover his ears. So John probably told you that your grandfather is a Pan Am legend, right? This is true. Uh and how did that make you feel that some random passenger recognized your name and reached out and said, Hey, you know, do you have this Pan Am connection?

SPEAKER_02 22:22

Well, growing up with Pops, he's always left a little bit of an impact. You know, he's he's kind of the center of attention at a party, always telling stories and stuff like that. And you know, he he's got a great personality, everybody loves him, so it wasn't too far-fetched for me to believe. Um but it did make me feel really good because I really like Pops. Uh Stu's a great man, and uh yeah, it it made me feel pretty good. But we had a conversation probably 15 minutes right there on the jet bridge, and uh stories about Pan Am and going back and forth, and it was a good conversation, it really was.

SPEAKER_03 23:03

And Jeff, one of the things that I always try to encourage people to have is passion projects. Uh, this podcast, for instance, is one of my volunteer passion projects. And one of your passion projects, and for you too, Steven, is fishing. Tell us a little bit about, I understand you're a famous uh ESPN fisherman.

SPEAKER_04 23:28

Uh yes, that is one of the benefits of being an aviator or being with the airlines is you work hard, but on your days off, you get to play hard. You know, you can literally walk away, you don't have to worry about paperwork or anything like that. And yes, my passion, you know, from being here in Miami, we're close to the water. And so I always had the opportunity to, you know, to uh to play with boats. And uh with that leading to the water, obviously connects to the fishing, and and you know, as as things grew, you know, as time went on, I found that you know, between the air and the water, there were so so much similarities, uh, the challenges. I just had a passion for trying to target, you know, something bigger and better. And I was able to fortunately get uh connected with ESPN and do a TV show for six years uh all around the world. And what was ironic is at that time we were using American Airlines to to transport us and a lot of the camera guys to these different destinations that uh really really were amazing. And without the aviation, obviously you wouldn't be able to, you know, see these destinations, which tying back to Pan American, using the flying boats from their history to to locate you know these beautiful islands and uh locales to where the fishing aspect and uh you know just everything was amazing. So yeah, it's kind of funny how it all ties back in together.

SPEAKER_03 24:58

And Stu, let's talk uh back to your uncle. So your uncle was the first gentleman to deliver air mail in New England, and he his flight certificate was signed by one of the Wright brothers. So he was in the infancy of aviation at the time. What do you think that he would have thought seeing what you were able to see in your lifetime, you know, from flying boats, then prop planes, then the jet age, the Concord, supersonic travel, and so forth?

SPEAKER_01 25:31

I don't know if he could have envisioned all that transpired after his flying and what uh we were able to see, but I he would have been so proud to see what we've accomplished and would just be, I could see a smile on his face. He would be really, really excited, you know. And it and what one of the things that was very interesting, uh one day I was on the uh seven uh 707. We were flying uh over upstate New York by Schenectady Airport, where my uncle did his last flying in the before he went into his service. That's where I flew when I was five years old. And he had a helper by the name of Jack. I I didn't really uh remember any of that at the time, except uh the C and the teenager there with my uncle uh when we left. Uh but we were flying uh I was a co-pilot on a 70707, and when we went over Schenectady, the captain said, Hey, I used to know an archer down there in Schenectady. I said, That's my uncle. He said, Yeah, he laughed at me. He said, Yeah, right. I said, Lawrence, he said, You're right. Well, it turned out the captain was Jack, Jack Sweeney, he was the one that was hawking uh people to go fly with my uncle. And but he became uh the uh a Pan Am pilot, and my uncle taught him how to fly. It was such a small world, I couldn't believe it. And the nice thing and the interesting thing, uh Jack lived here in Miami, and my dad was able to get together. They got together a number of times and and went over many things that transpired there in Schenectady. And and and I knew a few things uh from the times that I was there at the airport, and and and uh Jack remembered the others. So yeah, we reminisced about the days back there of Schenectady and my uncle taught them to fly. That was really a small world.

SPEAKER_03 27:33

So let's talk about your time with Panam. I understand you have lots of stories. Let's start with the presidential uh press charters. Some of the other episodes we've done on White House press charters. Uh, we talked to Sam Donaldson in one of our episodes, and we also talked to Dwight Chapin of the Nixon administration and also Captain John Marshall and Claire Graham, who was a flight attendant on a lot of those press charters. And I I understand it was very interesting, uh patriotic, and exciting. Let's talk a little bit about your experiences.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

Well, I I I was very proud to have been selected to uh fly on the press charter, and that was with President Carter back in the 1980s, I believe it was. It was challenging, and and as you know, uh we got all the press on our our airplane, and the Air Force One takes off first, and of course, we take off after and have to pass them and get there and get all the people out so they can meet the uh president on arrival the next place. And and we did it also through uh Halloween, and and uh it was a lot of fun. Uh, the the gals would surprise the president jumping out of the crowd with their outfits on, and Sam Donaldson was hysterical at crew parties and everything. We really enjoyed him. And but later on, we we ended up in Chicago, and after a long day, and all of a sudden we got a call at about one o'clock in the morning that said, Hey, we gotta go, we gotta go right now. That's when the Iran uh hostage crisis happened. Uh, the president had to get back to the White House, and so we flew back to Andrews, and then after the next day, we went on and flew with him and uh right up to election time, and he invited us all to the come to uh Washington for the inauguration and everything. Years later, we had uh my partner and I, we had a few horses, and we were we we were running at uh Kentucky on Derby Day, not in the feature race, but a race just prior. And so we go down to we go down to the paddock, and on the way down to the paddock, uh there's President Carter being interviewed by ESPN. And uh, I stopped and asked uh I asked my partner, I said, Hey, you want to you want to meet the president? And uh he said, I gotta get to the horse and talk to the, you know, do what with the jockey and everything. So I waited there for a minute and the uh they stopped the the uh ESPN, they it was over, and as soon as they stopped interviewing uh President Carter, I stepped up, I said, Mr. President, I don't know if you remember me or not. He says, Certainly I do. You're on the press charter with us for uh two weeks. So we chatted for a bit. And I said, We got a what are you doing? He says, Well, I've got a horse in a race. I said, We got a horse in a race, and his horse was flag admiral, so we talked for a minute. So then we went to go watch the race and uh and uh we had a pretty good horse, and actually we led the the race right up to the to the wire, and his horse nosed us, got us by a nose at the at the finish line. So I turned around and saluted him. He was up in the VIP location, and I saluted him and uh we went on away. But uh funny enough, a few years it was a number of years later, I was now an engineer at the time, uh after 60. We're in Madrid, and and the station manager comes down and says, Hey, you're gonna have President Carter and his uh wife with you going back to Atlanta. And I mentioned to the captain, I said, you know, I had flown with him uh for a couple of weeks way back, and he never answered me. Uh uh they weren't too excited about having Pan Am folks on the airplane with them. Anyway, so at level off, the flight attendant comes into the cock and says, uh President Carter seems to think he knows one of you guys up here. And uh so the captain around says, Stu, I guess you better go back and say hello. So I did I went back.

SPEAKER_03 31:39

So so the Delta captain was listening.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

Yeah, yeah, he was listening, but he just wasn't uh you know acknowledging anything from me. So anyway, uh I walked back and here's President Corey. He's he he stands up out of his seat and he says, I thought I recognized your name. And we shook hands. And I said, The last time I saw you, your horse beat us. He said, Yeah, yeah, flag admiral. He went he he went to Pimacle right after uh the race with us. He said that was the last race he won. But anyway, yeah, I how he remembered me after all that time was just hysterical. I I really loved that. It was a wonderful experience flying a press charter, and I I'm so proud to have had the opportunity to do that. That was that was really great.

SPEAKER_03 32:28

Thank you very much for sharing that story. We are going to take a quick break with a Pan Am commercial from 1982.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

In 1935, only one airline, Pan Am stood poised on the edge of America, ready to challenge the Pacific. And today, the mighty clippers of Pan Am rise majestically from six continents for the far corners of the world. Where will we fly to next? Well, we've been thinking.

SPEAKER_03 33:12

So, Jeff and Steven, apparently the Pantiam Podcast is popular in the executive wing of American Airlines. And one of the executives recently sent me a message talking about how they love the program. I would like to talk a little bit about recruiting for American Airlines because there are a lot of young people that listen to this program. And Steven, you started off as a flight instructor. So let's talk about the American Airlines Academy. And uh that website is aacadetacademy.com.

SPEAKER_02 33:49

How I got into it was I started ATP Flight School, passed all my check rides with them. They offered me a job. It was out in uh Mesa, Arizona in Phoenix. I get out there, all my roommates and other instructors are doing their airline apps, looking for places to go, and I'm like, well, the only spot that really makes sense for me living in Miami, trying to get back home to base is gonna be Envoy. So I look online and sure enough, there's a cadet program that ATP does with them. Did it applied, sent me out to the job interview. It went great. You know, the uh the recruiters over there, super personable, really nice guys, and uh sure enough, got the job, hired as a cadet instructor, earning my hours, and then once I got 1500, get a class date at Envoy, go from there. Really, it it worked out great. Um you know, the timeline with COVID, I was still able to fly, get my hours, but once they started hiring again, I was in the the first class after the furloughs are recalled. So it really worked out well for me. And Envoy also has the flow that goes to American, so that's kind of where I want to be living in base, living in Miami. Life is good and eventually American after a few more years.

SPEAKER_03 35:04

Do you have any advice for anyone that is interested in becoming an airline pilot?

SPEAKER_02 35:10

It's a great career. Quality of life is amazing. There are days where you're away from home, so it's harder for guys that I'm friends with who have families, you know, wives and kids and stuff, so it's a little bit tougher for them. But being single is, you know, really easy for me. Best way to get into it, I got friends who are doing, you know, private pilots certificate right now is get in, get your hours, um, fly as much as you can. Literally eat, sleep, fly if you can. But the sooner you get those hours, the sooner you get your your job application out there, you're basically gonna get hired. There's so much um there's so much hiring going on right now. And it's slowed down a little bit, but there's still a lot going on. It's not ending in the foreseeable future.

SPEAKER_03 35:54

And Jeff and Stu, back to you. Let's talk about family trips on Pani Am. Jeff, anything stand out to you that you'd like to talk about?

SPEAKER_04 36:05

Well, I can tell you, I remember it like it was yesterday, the very first time I ever saw or got to ride in an aircraft. You know, obviously at home, you know, it's it's dad. But then I got the opportunity, it was Miami to Boston, and I believe he was flying the 727 at the time. You know, back in the day with Pan American, is you always showed up, you know, with the slacks and tie and blazer, and you come in and here's this, you know, seven or eight-year-old kid. And I got the opportunity to stick my head in the cockpit and was completely uh overwhelmed, flabbergasted with all the bells, whistles, lights, switches, and all these buttons. And who do I see as my father sitting in the left seat, getting the opportunity to stick the head in and and be part of that was um you know amazing. It I immediately knew then that that was something that I wanted to achieve. And then fast forward 10 more years later, I got the opportunity to ride in the cockpit with him from Miami to London. I believe that was in 1985. I got the opportunity to fly in the cockpit on the 747 with him as a captain. And it was it was an amazing, amazing time. But what was tough and unique is you know, I obviously thought it was all gloriofied, you know, being a pilot. But then I realized when you get to the destination, you've been up all night and you need to quickly go to sleep. And here I was sleeping on the airplane the entire time. I got there, I'm ready to see London. And Pops is like, son, I love you, but I gotta take a little cat nap here, sir. So yeah, no, I it was like it was yesterday. I can remember that trip from Miami to Boston. Uh couldn't have been more than seven or eight years old.

SPEAKER_03 37:53

And during Stu's career, uh walking through the airport with those white caps on, you were like celebrities, right, Stu?

SPEAKER_00 38:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:02

Young people would come up to you, little boys and girls would come up to you, and you know, they thought that you were rock stars.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

That was really nice. Uh, and and you know, one of one of the nice things talking to some of the young uh boys and girls, uh, you know, they'd ask about the flying, and it was really nice to be able to talk to them and let them know work hard in school and uh work on your math and science and everything. And uh it's it's a great thing uh when you grow up, give it a shot.

SPEAKER_03 38:31

Any other family trips that stand out to you, Jeff? And and also uh Steven, family trips on American Airlines or Pan Am?

SPEAKER_04 38:40

Well, for me, I'll tell you, one of the one of the neatest uh experiences as growing up, my sister Deborah being a flight attendant, you know, on occasions when they had long layovers. For instance, this one I happened to travel with it was from Miami to Rio de Janeiro, and you know, she was down there. Uh, I believe it was like 30 hours. So we had the full day to do some sights and scene. And fast forward 25 years later, I actually flew that same flight, Miami to Rio de Janeiro, and stayed at the same hotel that we did back in the day of the Pan Am. So it was an amazing, amazing, actually, you know, just surreal getting down to Rio de Janeiro, being on Ibanipan Beach, and I believe it was the Marriott that we were at, Dad. If you remember the one that used to stay at down there in Rio. Yeah, yeah. It was the same, same hotel, you know, 25 years later. That stands out, really, really stands out.

SPEAKER_03 39:41

Steven, how about you? Your grandfather is a pilot, first for Pan Am, then for Delta. Uh, your dad's working for American Airlines. I'm sure you've had some very interesting trips.

SPEAKER_02 39:54

So, one that comes to mind, and it actually includes all three of us. I must have been eight, ten years old, and it was career day. My dad happened to be based up in Chicago at the time. Pops and I woke up, couldn't tell you the time. I know it was dark though. And uh we went to the airport and flew on the plane going up to Chicago, and he's giving me a little navigator thing, you know, going on, showing us the map, or doing little checkpoints as we go up to Chicago, looking out the window, and sure enough, get to Chicago, and who's waiting for us at the gate? It's dad. So did a spent a little career day up in Chicago, shoot, show me a little bit of the ops in Chicago and kind of the things that go on with the airline, and super cool. You know, that really left an impression on me, and uh definitely memorable because all three of us were a part of it, you know. It's a cool experience.

SPEAKER_03 40:52

And Stu, any emergencies that stand out to you?

SPEAKER_01 40:56

When I was an engineer first starting with with uh Pan Am I that was a challenge. Uh I've been flying as an aircraft commander in the Air Force on on both the super constellations and and uh 130s, and uh as an engineer, I'm seeing things that I've never seen before. We some of the pilots, it's their first checkout on jets and everything, and they were having some issues. And one, we were just in the training phase of the uh 727s. We didn't have any simulators, so everything had to be done live. So I was an engineer and we're doing takeoffs and landings and touch and goes and whatnot. And anyway, we're over towards Naples at the one of the airports over on the west coast of Florida. We're sitting there and the and the training uh instructor uh was was pushing the one of the captains and and rushing things, and all of a sudden he started to take off. And we didn't even have a clearance, and an eastern was cleared for takeoff and was going to be crossing right in front of us. Anyway, next thing I know, the captain released the bakes and they shoved the power up. And yeah, I just reacted and reached up and grabbed the throttle and says, aboard, abort, abort. And uh just about that time, uh a uh eastern airline went right across our bow. Wow, everything got really quiet in the cockpit, nobody said anything. That was one time. Another one that was was interesting. One of the captains was his first his first solo flight after his checkout. And we flew down to Guatemala, was the first stop, everything went great. Then he went over to Salvador, it was dark now, and uh the first approach, he was probably a thousand feet high over the end of the runway, and he made a missed approach and went flew down south. And we did a 180 over the lake down there and coming back. There's a uh mountain right next to the end of the runway, and and and it's on the uh west side of the runway. He missed that one again. And now I'm really concerned trying to figure out you know, I've been flying as an aircraft commander, and I I'm debating about whether to get in the seat to fly it, or I figured, uh, let me try to talk him down, might be the best thing because I hadn't had any real experience in the uh flying the airplane, even though I knew I could fly. Uh so I tried talking them down and he missed he missed the approach again, and so he went out over the lake, and I the co-pilot was not very helpful. So I said, Hey, let the let the co-pilot uh just take it and relax for a few minutes and this time go out over the lake a little bit further. And uh we did. We came back in, and again we got the mountain, and uh he was getting shy from it. And I said, You're a little high, a little high, bring it down, you're doing good. Bring it down. And next thing I know, I had no idea that he had decided he's landing this time. He stuck the nose down. We hit nose gear first and banged and veered about 30 degrees to the right, and the main hit. Geez, my knees shook at that. Never happened before. My knees were shaking like a leaf as we taxed into the into the terminal. And uh I didn't know how to write the airplane up. I mean, it was more than a hard landing, it was a severe hard landing. And uh the flight attendants wouldn't get back on the airplane with them. Anyway, uh they sent somebody else down to fly the airplane back, they checked it out, and we all survived. And and uh, but it was it was a shock because I had not seen anything like that in my entire flight career. But it was a it was an experience, a challenging time for some of the new guys that had never flown jets before. But he turned out I flew with him later and he apologized and everything, but he he got it together. But those were a couple things that we first saw when we first started uh flying in a 7-2.

SPEAKER_03 44:47

It was in a and that was late 60s when uh the aviation industry in general, but payamp in particular had a lot of CRM problems, and that's where the genesis of the whole CRM program began.

SPEAKER_01 45:02

Exactly, and and you're exactly right. And and talking to some of the other pilots when we started the CRM program, I I was in shock to find out from some of the other pilots just exactly what was what was going on. It it was definitely a challenge, definitely a challenge in that time period of time.

SPEAKER_03 45:24

And for our listeners, CRM means crew resource management.

SPEAKER_04 45:29

Yeah, what I was gonna say is exactly what uh what Pops was bringing up is that you know, obviously, you know, starting transitioning from recips to the jet aircraft, obviously everything changes speed-wise. And you know, approaches are much quicker, things happen at a much faster rate. And I will have to tell you that, you know, from the years of the transitionings, one of the phenomenal things in American Airlines that I personally have seen, uh I've also actually seen it in Stephen when he comes, you know, comes home from training, debriefing, is the coordination that they do between the flight crews. You know, that's one of the things that they strive that basically you can fly with any guy uh that you haven't flown with. And it's like you've worked together for 10 years, is because they streamline and communicate really well. Each of you have a job, aka flows, and it just it's very, very, very, very smooth. And you know, going back to you asked about the training aspect to Steven, is that's one of the great things with these programs like ATP. Um, there are several universities that they do. It's a 141 program. And so it's a structured uh training facility that you go through, but it's exactly what it teaches. It teaches you how to work with other crew members. It takes you, you know, how to take the time because things happen at such a fast rate, i.e., what you know, Pops was just talking about the the guys transitioned to the jet era. And so now they really have done a great job, uh, specifically working with American Airlines and Envoy uh through their 141 programs that they do, whether it be the four-year universities or again, like I said, uh ATP, which is uh another facility that does training with them. But yeah, CRM is is very, very important. It's uh what we live by, and you know, it like I said, it makes every pilot that goes from one to another aircraft and another crew member basically act like you've done it a hundred times together because it's smooth. It's like a dance.

SPEAKER_03 47:40

Stu, let's talk about the end of Pan Am in 1991, because you're not only a Pan Am legend, but after Pan Am, you made a difference because you filed a lawsuit that ended up being successful and paved the way for other senior pilots to get employment. So let's first talk about the end of Pan Am, how that affected you, what you think about it, and then we can talk about the lawsuit.

SPEAKER_01 48:13

Before the end, uh I put my name down in the vent I ever got bounced off to 747. I had the 310 down as a backup. All of a sudden I came back from uh a Pan Am trip. I've been in Moscow long trip flying out of New York, and I I got back to Miami probably at one o'clock, two o'clock in the morning. And Jeff stayed up, scheduling had called and and uh said, Hey dad, call scheduling. And I said, you know, screw scheduling, I'll call him in the morning. He said, No, that's why I stayed up. So I called him and they wanted me in class in the morning uh at eight o'clock. I said, Are you guys crazy? But anyway, I said, Can I have a minute to think about it? But anyway, the bottom line, I I was in class at eight o'clock in the morning. And then by the end of the week, we were in ground school and went up to the simulator in Toronto. And uh I qualified on a 310 and I came back, and then I flew to 7.4 until one November. Then I started flying uh as a captain on the on the 310, and it took me about a month to get my head on straight. I could fly the airplane good, but I had to get up to speed again on the computers, uh different, totally different from the uh Boeing uh cockpit and and the all the electronics on it. But anyway, yeah, I flew I flew the 310 till I got to age uh three. I flew his three years as captain with with Delta, and uh we lost a lot in our retirement due to the bankruptcy and everything. But in any event, I got hold of an attorney. We Delta wouldn't let us become engineers uh like other airlines in Pan Am and so forth. Once you hit 60, you could become a uh engineer.

SPEAKER_03 50:02

And at that time, 60 was mandatory retirement.

SPEAKER_01 50:06

Exactly. 60 was mandatory retirement.

SPEAKER_03 50:08

So and Jeff and Steven, what's mandatory retirement today? 65. 65. Okay, 65. I'm sorry, Stu, continue.

SPEAKER_01 50:16

Yeah, so anyway, I selected an attorney in in uh Chicago. He wrote a letter in my behalf and you know, saying I want to continue to be an engineer, etc., etc. And uh sent it to Delta and Delta answered, you know, we uh we run a safe operation, we don't want a former captain sitting behind our captains and second-guessing them and so forth. Anyway, the lawsuit was filed with the EEOC. And after about six months, Delta threw up their hands. We won I won the lawsuit, and I had no help. I did it on my own uh union and nobody else. I I did it myself, paid for the whole thing. And uh Delta said, Come on, I'm back. So I went back and uh went through training before I could go on the flight. Uh they said you gotta sign this paper and then they uh the contract, and I said, Whoa, if this is not what the court put down. So we we went round and round on that, and I finally said, Do you want a copy of what the what Delta agreed to? And uh so they finally uh gave me that, and I signed that. And unfortunately, they had uh they were trying to figure ways to get rid of us, and they had an engineer start failing us in the simulators, and so I had some phone calls right back to headquarters, and uh and I always had somebody on the telephone with me if I was dealing on on the phone with them. And in fact, uh one of the guys I used all the time was Bob Cassidy, one of our Pen M pilots. He happened to be there with me at the same time. I always wanted somebody to listen in on a conversation just in case there was a problem. And I I let uh the company know I said, Hey, you got a rogue engineer and and the Delta themselves are are doing this to us. We're gonna be right back in court if you don't get this taken care of. And they had flunked virtually everybody that came through, and all of a sudden they got rid of the rogue engineer, and everybody that they failed got back flying again. I flew captain for three years and I flew engineer for seven years, uh, finished just end of December 2000, so just coming up on 2001 is when I retired.

SPEAKER_03 52:31

How did that impact other pilots? And how did the union take all of this?

SPEAKER_01 52:36

Well, the the union never never supported me at all. In fact, when uh we first came over to Delta, Union met us, and of course, I spoke up big time because our salaries were as cut. The Delta co-pilot who would fly with me, he made more than I did as a captain. And uh anyway, I definitely brought that to the union's attention, and uh that was a whole nother sad story. I never got up to to full pay on uh Delta, but in any event, everybody that got busted after I got things settled out, everybody everybody came back to work. It was really a a great thing because some of the co-pilots, their retirement with Pan was like uh you know $180 a month or something. So the the guys really needed an opportunity to you know to continue to try to save whatever they could and make whatever they could before they were forced to uh retire.

SPEAKER_03 53:34

And Jeff and Stephen, when you hear the story of your father and grandfather taking on a big American corporation trying to get pilots the experience and the job that they require, how does that make you feel?

SPEAKER_04 53:52

Uh for me personally, you know, obviously knowing my father at the time, you know, when he turned age 60, uh cops is uh he's still in amazing shape. I mean, he would run five miles a day, uh six days a week. So health-wise, he definitely didn't have any issues like that. It's actually something that I kind of look up to and to take care of my body, but he's not fearful of any of the challenges. It's kind of just like the aviation he's done for years, whether it's you know, dealing with Mother Nature and putting an aircraft into someplace. He was not afraid of that. He was doing what was right. You know, the government unfortunately created the bankruptcy. Um and he was just trying to kind of continue to do what he did and fight for fight for the little guys. And several guys had the opportunity. And I do believe that that's kind of what led to age 65, is because he proved that, you know, as long as you're healthy, you can maintain your first class medical. And if you had the knowledge to fly an aircraft and the and the equipment, then you should be able to use that experience and pass that out for you know, pass it down to future generations. You know, it's it's imperative, you know, to have uh knowledge and and law knowledge is not something that you get overnight, it's something that you get over and over over time. But uh no, I was very proud of them for not being scared to to take on a large American corporation uh to do what was right, you know, to do stick, stick up, you know, stick up for the little guy for the most part.

SPEAKER_03 55:25

Steven, your thoughts.

SPEAKER_02 55:26

Yeah, I I agree with all that. I mean, also going to the older age, you got somebody who's wise that's in the cockpit with you, that's seen a lot of these different things, opposed to i.e. the new 727 captain that hasn't seen a lot yet, you know, and is making mistakes. When you got somebody who's back there who's seen a lot of stuff, who's had a lot of experiences, it adds a lot of um experience, you know, into the cockpit. And I I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing as long as, like we said, you know, you you gotta maintain your health, you gotta maintain your medical, you gotta maintain your academics. But I mean, if you're good on that, I think it's only a benefit.

SPEAKER_03 56:06

Let's switch gears for a moment. And believe it or not, American Airlines is the only airline I have not flown on before. I've flown on pretty much everybody else, but not American.

SPEAKER_04 56:18

We need we need to change that, Tom. We'd like to get you on board part of the family. It's uh it's a fantastic airline.

SPEAKER_03 56:24

One of my regrets in life is not flying on TWA or the Concord when I was able to. Um, but I heard that the flagship service of American Airlines is fantastic, and uh wanted uh the three of you to comment on it.

SPEAKER_04 56:41

Going back for myself, seeing Pan American back in the day, as I said earlier, you know, your suit and tie. It was always, you know, first class. American Airlines has really tried to bring flagship and do just that because we have the customers, you know, that are business travelers, and you need you you like having that comfort and the amenities, but we also you know have the ability for you know to make that economical airfare where you're trying to go see the grandparents or whatever, and you don't have a whole lot of extra money. So you have the ability of both, but it's it's a phenomenal program that they have and they try to maintain back in the heyday that first class image.

SPEAKER_03 57:19

And I just my condolences, I just uh saw just a couple days ago, uh, the oldest serving flight attendant, uh Betty recently passed away. Uh what an inspiration she was for American Airlines. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 57:36

It shows you the dedication. And it's you know, it's like that, us, you know, the uh the aviators, the flight attendants, you know, it's a it's a career. You know, you stick in and you're there for your you know 30, 35, 40 years. And in in Betty's place, it was it was what 57 years, I believe it was. It's it's a family. You know, really the airlines, Pan American was a family, and American Airlines is is truly a family. And like Steven, like he said when he initially where he wanted to get hired, is he wanted to go to Envoy because eventually he wanted to get to American and hopefully continue his you know his career, you know, where I'm at and be here in Miami.

SPEAKER_02 58:16

I think it's really a uh a passion behind it. Getting into the airline, it's it's an incredible job. You do a lot of traveling, you see a lot of different places, and you become really good friends with the people that you do it with. So in Betty's case, I'm sure she loved the job. You know, that's why she was the oldest flight attendant. That being said, it's it's it's a great career, you know. You get in, you love the places you go to, you have a passion for your career. We all love it, that's why we do it.

SPEAKER_03 58:45

We are going to take a quick break with a special aviation commercial from American Airlines. This commercial is historically important as it was one of the first commercials after the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, and it sent an important message to the American public of inspiration, confidence, and patriotism while sending the signal that the aviation industry was back in business and safe. The theme was originally composed to promote the merger of American Airlines and TWA, however, it was repurposed after 9-11. The airline released two versions called Engine and Way of Life in February 2002 that were celebrated by the industry. Both depict gleaming aircraft in a montage of actual American Airlines employees at work. Text that flashes on the screen states that the carrier is proud to be called American. The text describes the aviation industry as an economic engine and as a way of life encompassing freedom, confidence, and peace of mind. Let's take a listen to the theme called Engine by Steve Ford. His son, American Airlines Captain Jeff Archer, and grandson, Envoy Air Captain Stephen Archer. Stu, let's talk about Pan Am again. So this is an airline that unfortunately went out of business. But the the majority of the employees are still very loyal, and they're still very loyal to each other. It it's an incredible thing to see. And I've been very fortunate uh through this history work to be adopted into that family, and it is just an incredible experience. Can you tell us a little bit about that dedication to that family?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:44

I had uh spent time uh in the military overseas, and we all helped each other. We were based in the out in the countryside, Ever France, new wives and uh and so forth, and we all helped each other. Well, it's very the same thing with Pan Am. Same thing, uh you know, you're on long trips. Sometimes uh somebody run out of money, whether it be a flight attendant or or whatever, and we'd help each other, or they'd uh need to get their bids in, and they didn't get their bids in, and we'd bring their bids back in uh bid form. In fact, well, I was flying to London out of Miami, and and uh one of the flights was coming back from uh London to Miami. The captain's name is Roger Carron, and he he he had a son with him on a trip. And he said, Hey, Sue, uh, I couldn't get my son on the trip, and uh he was eight years old and left him in London. He said, Hey, would you check on him? Uh I don't know if he's got any money with him or what he's got. And so when I got to when I got to London, I I checked on him, and one of the Pan Am uh folks had taken him home and we uh communicated with him, and then uh the next day, the uh flight coming back, the captain uh looked after him and brought him right back to uh to his house here in Miami. So over the years, doing those type of things, and and we had a number of crew parties where we supported each other, and and uh in some cases, I can tell you we the new flight attendants, you know, we go try to go eat and and they wouldn't have enough money to go eat. And on many occasions, I you know, I'd when I knew there was a new one, I'd say, Hey, don't worry about it. Come on, I'll cover your lunch, don't worry about it. And so doing that over over a period of years, we very definitely bonded to this day. People ask us, uh I I have uh president of the Clipper Pioneers and uh put together cruises uh most every year. And uh people look at us and say, geez, Pan Am went down years ago. I can't believe you guys are still together. And yeah, it it we really we really bonded. We really bonded. Yeah, we do uh we do stay together. It's it's it's amazing. It in fact, I was down in Miami at down at Coconut Grove. We were doing uh at the uh old Pan Am terminal, and just adjacent to it, there's a restaurant that we were there, and it just opened and it they uh kind of tie into Pan Am. And I was there in my Pan Am uniform at the restaurant, and young man came over to me and said, Hey, can I take a picture with you? I said, Certainly. So he he took a picture with me and uh he said, I'm going to American. I said, You're kidding. I said, uh actually, my son and grandson are with American. Well, if you can believe it or not, I guess he checked in the next day or so and he met the chief pilot. And then the chief pilot and he told me, he said, Hey, I just met a Pan Am uh guy and uh named Archer. And he said, His son's here. He says he he knew he knew both Jeff and and Stephen. He says, I'm going over to his house tonight, or something like that. And uh end up this this fellow that took the picture with me got to know all of him, and uh and he ended up over at my house also.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:11

Yeah, it's a it's a small pan Am world. I always hear these kinds of stories, these connections that uh it's like there's some Pan Am angels that are connecting everybody. It's really interesting. As we near the end of our episode here, why is Pan Am important and why should this history and this legacy be preserved for future generations? Uh, I open it up to all three of you. Uh Steven, you have a very unique perspective because you're a younger person. A lot of young people listen to this program. One of the reasons why we do what we do here at the Panam Podcast and at the Panam Museum is try to preserve this history for young generations and future generations to discover it and appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:58

I think it's very important to preserve it. You know, Pan Am is almost the uh it almost paved the way for aviation today. In the terms of the things they do, in terms of you know, being able to fly around the world. It's just history. You gotta preserve that.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:14

I agree with that, you know, like Steven said, the Pan American literally did pave the world by being able to cross continents, connect people together, different different ways of life to bring it to where it's home and felt natural, as opposed to you know, keeping it the far distance. So Pan American really was vital to uh making it a global.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:35

Yeah, very important. Pan Am was the first in most everything you can think of, whether it be in communications for the aircraft uh all through the wilderness and the countrysides around the world. We we started with ADFs for approaches and and landings, and those have all been modernized. But Pan Am developed many of these things. It started in 1927, the first flight to Havana. They're gonna be celebrating the hell the 100th anniversary in uh you know just a few years from now, about three years from now. And it's gonna be celebrated right here in Miami, Florida, it in uh Coconut Grove. The like Jeff said, first around the world, first across the Atlantic, first across the Pacific. Legendary in every single way. And the pilots, Lindbergh and and and uh uh one trip had Lindbergh as uh helped develop for navigation, and it it's just unbelievable the accomplishments of Pan Am. And people take a lot of things for granted, but a lot of pilots and and and and people at Pan Am made this happen and and it's got to got us to where we are today. It's it's it's legendary.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:51

Well, we covered a lot of topics um about this, and uh I hope I was able to help you tell the archer family of aviator stories. Is there anything the three of you would like to add as we near the end of our episode?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:08

Well, I am so proud. Uh my uncle Lawrence, my Uncle Lawrence, he started he started this for our family, unbeknownst to me. And uh when he went off into the military, I remember he he gave me a he gave all of us children, uh my brothers and sisters, the four of us, he gave us each a $25 savings bomb. And it's something I never forgot, and I I I never forgot the the first flight I had, and the first when I was a kid, I saw a guy in a parachute coming down and unbeknownst to me, it was my uncle testing things for GE. My uncle really really had a tremendous influence on my career in aviation. I enjoyed talking to young kids. In fact, I I have I was asked in on one of my times in London if I would go to one of the local schools and talk to the children in London about uh aviation and so forth. And and I did I also did the same thing in in uh Tel Aviv one time. But it's so important to let the young the youth to talk to them about some things that might be very interesting for them to look at and and uh help encourage the kids to study hard at school and uh and maybe that one day they'll become a pilot, but it's a great career.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:35

Jeff, Stephen, any closing thoughts about your family? Uh Jeff, your sister, Stephen, your aunt, uh, that was a Pan Am flight attendant, and of course, your uh father and grandfather Stu, who is the celebrated Pan Am pilot.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:54

That that he is, and it's you know uh it's been an it's an absolute honor, you know, to be uh to be part of the family, seeing my dad and what Deborah, you know, what Dave Deborah was able to do uh really inspired me to continue to do what I'm doing today. And I'm just I'm for I'm so blessed to be part of the Pan American family. And now uh transferring and got my kid now to to follow the footsteps of my father. So it's it's it's an honor. It's it's Pan American has touched me and it'll continue to touch me as years go on.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:32

Yeah, I I agree with that. You know, it's a it's a total honor and nothing but respect, you know, looking up and and seeing you guys doing what you're doing, and it's great, man. It I got big shoes to fill. That's all I think. You got this.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:49

All right, well, there you have it. Well, thank you very much, captains. I very much appreciate your time. Take care, and we'll keep in touch.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:56

Tom, you did a great job. That was very good. Uh appreciate it. Thank you, Tom. Thank you, Tom. And enjoy the flight.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:07

Pan Am was a pioneer in air travel and still stands as one of the most iconic and innovative airlines in aviation history. That legacy lives on at the Pan Am Museum in Garden City, New York, where you can explore the rich history of the aircraft and individuals at the heart of the company known as the world's most experienced airline. For more information about the Pan Am Museum, check out our website at www.thepan Amuseum.org. You can also find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok. As was once a tagline in one of our commercials, we would greatly appreciate your support to help the Pan Am Museum continue making the going great. You can also support the museum by shopping on our online store for all things Pan Am accessories, apparel, jewelry, books, models, and posters. We want to hear from you. If you have a question for us or want to share your story, our email address is podcast at the Pan Ammuseum.org. As flight crews once said to passengers departing for their destinations around the world, thank you for flying, Pan Am