SPEAKER_00 0:14

Welcome to the Pan Am Podcast, brought to you by the Pan Am Museum in Garden City, New York. This podcast and our museum are dedicated to celebrating the legacy of the world's most iconic airlock, Pan American World Airways. My name is Tom Betty, and I'm the host of this program. Thank you for joining us. The Pan Am Museum Foundation is a nonprofit organization. Please visit our website for more information at the Pan Ammuseum.org. Again, our website is the Panamuseum.org. You can find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok. If you are using Apple Podcasts, please consider leaving a review. It will help others discover this program. This podcast is sponsored by the generous personal support of Mr. Adam Aaron, the CEO and chairman of AMC Theaters. He is also president of our sister organization, the Pan Am Historical Foundation. If you're not familiar with Pan Am, welcome. We are honored to have you here, and for you to learn about what we're all about. If you already know of Pan Am, worked for, or flown on the airline, or just love our history, it's good to be with you again. So with that, let's get this episode in the air, so to speak. Welcome aboard your Pan American jet clipper. Then we will be joined by actor Susan Clausen, who plays the Hollywood legend in her one-woman production called A Conversation with Edith Head. Edith Claire Posner was born October 28, 1897 in San Bernardino, California. In 1919, Edith received a Bachelor of Arts degree in Letters and Sciences with honors in French from the University of California, Berkeley, and in 1920 earned a Masters of Arts degree in Romance Languages from Stanford University. She became a language teacher with her first position as a replacement at the Bishop School in La Jolla teaching French. After one year, she took a position teaching Spanish at the Hollywood School for Girls. On July 25th, 1923, she married Charles Head, the brother of one of her classmates. Although the marriage ended in divorce in 1938 after a number of years of separation, she continued to be known professionally as Edith Head until her death. In 1940, she married award-winning art director and interior designer Bill Innan, a marriage which lasted until his death in 1979. In her storied career in Hollywood, Edith Head won a record eight Academy Awards for Best Costume Design between 1949 and 1973, making her the most awarded woman in the Academy's history. She is considered to be one of the greatest and most influential costume designers in film history. Let's listen to a report from ABC News on October 27, 1981, announcing the death of Edith Head before our interview with actor Susan Clausen.

SPEAKER_03 4:07

We had a theory that the clothes helped the woman get what she wanted.

SPEAKER_06 4:12

As a debutante in A Place in the Sun, Elizabeth Taylor wanted to be noticed, and she was in this dress Edith Head designed for her. It got Edith Head something she wanted: an Academy Award, one of eight Oscars she won in 50 years in Hollywood. A former school teacher with a master's degree in language, but an Amy for design. An Amai that succeeded on her first big job.

SPEAKER_03 4:36

The film was called She Dunning Rom. That's the first picture of which I ever got credit. It's the dress in which she looks over her shoulder and says, Why don't you come up and see me sometime?

SPEAKER_06 4:44

She was tiny, barely five feet tall, but she became a giant in an industry that was sweeping the world with its costumes and its fantasy. She always dressed in a beige suit and glasses. Conservatively, she said, not to clash with the stars. Edith had always insisted that the clothes had to suit the story. In the sting, she proved she could tell the story with men's clothes, too. That won her the Oscar for the last time. She won others for Audrey Hepburn's costumes in Sabrina, for Samson and Delamila, for All About Eve. She worked almost until the end, and she talked just seven months ago about what she did best.

SPEAKER_03 5:23

I have to translate the character, male or female, children, anything, through the beings of what they were. I am not a designer. I am a magician.

SPEAKER_06 5:35

John Martin, ABC News, New York.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

Now on to our interview. Susan was nominated for the 2011 LA Stage Alliance Ovation Award and Broadway World LA Award as Best Actress for her portrayal of Edith Head in A Conversation with Edith Head, and most recently nominated for the San Francisco Bay Area Theater Critics Circle 43rd Annual Excellence in Theater Awards for Best Solo Production and Best Production. A conversation with Edith Head premiered at the Invisible Theater in 2002 in Tucson, Arizona, and has played coast to coast with more than 700 performances. The production has toured internationally to the Republic of Georgia, a sold-out engagement at the 2007 Edinburgh Festival Fringe, Toronto, and an acclaimed five-week run at the Leicester Square Theatre in London's West End. Susan has also been a clown in the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade since 2001. She dedicates all of her performances to the vibrant memory of her beloved mother, Goldie. So it's a great pleasure to welcome Susan Clausen to the Pan Am podcast.

SPEAKER_02 7:24

Well, thank you. It is a privilege to be with you and all our Pan Am friends.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

It's very true. And you are definitely a staple in the Pan Am community. This interview, we're going to talk about a few things. Obviously, we're going to talk about Hollywood legend Edith Head and her connection to Pan American World Airways, but I also want to talk about you. You have been a professional actor for most of your adult life. And I want to start with you. So how did you get into acting? What inspired you? What are a couple of your favorite movies? Let's start at the beginning.

SPEAKER_02 7:58

Well, at the beginning, I grew up in New Jersey and it was very important in our family cultural offerings. I feel very fortunate that I was taken to Broadway and I loved theater. And I was also really shy. But my best friend across the street was taking dramatic lessons. And of course, I wanted to because she was my best friend. And that was really the beginning, all through high school. Went off to college at the University of Denver, far away from New Jersey, in the big gymnasium. It was, I told my parents I was going into speech therapy. And there was theater and there was speech therapy. And it was like theater. It was, you know, in the late 60s, early 70s. It was an exciting time for theater. So my parents didn't know until I received the outstanding junior in theater award. And my father and mother came out for it. And my father was so proud. I think he spent more taking out the whole cast on that. And that was really the beginning. And I actually, when professional uh in Denver, it was before there's a resurgence of uh Denver is a major theater town now with the uh Denver Center. But at that time it was all these small little theaters, and I got involved with that, and it was really, really exciting. And then I was only being cast as a cute little urchin, because I'm little urchin-like, I guess. I wasn't even auditioning, and I knew I had more in me than that. And so when my ex-husband, Robert Glossen, thus the name, uh, decided he wanted to go to school in anthropology and University of Arizona was great, I was ready to move for a new start. And immediately I started working at the what was the Lourdes Theater, which is a League of Resident Theaters professional theater. I was already equity, our actors union. And that was the beginning. And then a friend of mine, who I met at an audition at this Arizona, it was civic theater then, but it was it turned into now Arizona Theater Company, said, a new theater is starting. Come on, let's go look. And she had a background in improv, uh, and I had a background in improv. And we went to this new theater and walked up these steps. And in Tucson, it's very flat, so it's rare to walk up steps, but it felt the closest to a loft, like a loft in New York, or and it was an exciting collective time, and that really was the beginning. And it was all new plays for the first 10 years. First year was artistically exciting, but it was economically devastating. And both Molly and I uh were married at the time, so we had other income. So interestingly, all the men left and left the women in charge. So it was sort of OJT. Fortunately, I had a mind. My father was a businessman, he wasn't a college educated man, but he instilled in me, you don't spend what you don't have. And it has served very, very well. And I have a very logical mind. I never thought I could do math. I like geometry because it was pretty shapes and pictures, and I'm visual. But I evolved into a managerial role as well as an artistic role. And that really was the beginning of me being involved with invisible theater and in the Tucson community and very active in the Jewish community here in town and education. I have projects which I develop for special needs called Project Pastime. So we do theater programs, uh, which I've been doing for close to 40 years. So uh it's something that we have developed, that the arts are a great equalizer. It focuses on ability rather than dwelling on disability, which is certainly core value for me. So it was a it's been an such an interesting time of development over the last going on 50 years at the Invisible Theater.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

That's great. Let's talk about your One Woman show, A Conversation with Edith Head, and how did that come about?

SPEAKER_02 12:53

It's interesting. As an uh an actor, I have performed One Woman shows, Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe, uh, Shirley Valentine. And I had written for others and directed others, but I had never written anything for myself. I'm watching Biography Channel, and I'm certainly of the age I knew who Edith Head was. I'm watching, and this is in uh 2001, and there's a biography on Edith Head. Now, no one ever said to me prior to this moment that I looked like Edith Head. They would say other people, but not Edith Head ever. I'm watching, and I said, I look like her. And then as I watched, I realized there was so much to this story, well beyond fashion, well beyond glamour, well beyond Hollywood. She was an executive woman before there was such a thing. She was 1923, Tom. Had just recently got the vote. So I mean that that's when she joined Paramount. And it was a boys' club, definitely. So I watched it and I went, oh my God. So I quickly checked to see if there had been a theatrical piece. No. I quickly checked to, you know, did she have any living relatives? No. She had left her estate to the Motion Picture and Television Fund, which is the organization for anyone who works in the film business. And Edith was active in that, and you could leave. She left her estate there. And then I found there were two books, three books actually, that were out of print. One was called Edith Heads Hollywood by a woman named Patty Calistro, out of print. I thought I dialed 411. You remember what that was?

SPEAKER_05 14:51

411 information.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

I knew where she lived. And I found a phone number, called her, and said, My name is Susan Clausen. I run an intimate theater in Tucson, Arizona. I'm interested in doing a theatrical. Is this the Patty Calistro who wrote Edith Head's Hollywood? And you heard the reticence in her voice, and she went, Yeah. And I said, Well, I'm I I would love to come over. She lived in California in the LA area. I said, May I fly over and may we talk about it? I did early morning, flew over. We were like two magnets. She had 13 hours of taped interviews.

SPEAKER_04 15:30

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 15:31

With what we call edith-isms, because Edith had a tendency to see the world through her blue-tinted glasses and take credit for some things that maybe she didn't do, or she felt she was entitled to take credit for. And we decided we would go forward with this piece. And this was 2001. And I would fly to LA early in the morning. I wish there was Pan Am then, but there wasn't. Flew over to the Academy's library, which is the Margaret Herrick, and research and take the last flight back to Tucson. And it was microfiche time. All these articles with microfiche, and you could check, it's a great library. You can check out um anything. If you're interested in Alfred Hitchcock, you anyone can go in, check out files of uh of their service, and now everything is digitized too. So we researched and researched six months before I ever put word to paper and then did a reading, and it was right around 9-11. It was in the end of that September. Did a reading of the piece. And we felt we had something there that the story was so interesting. And this was before Edna Mode, before any of the pop culture things that came out.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

I was just gonna say that, like the timing was perfect because I think The Incredibles came out in 2004, and Edna Mode, which was based on Edith Head, was introduced to a whole new generation of moviegoers.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

Absolutely. And that's what makes it great for uh kids to, you know, they relate to it. So we premiered in February of 2002, and a miracle happened. The New York Times covered it in Tucson, Arizona. Now that's wow, that's a miracle. And Patty said, Don't get your hopes up. She worked for the LA Times. She said, you know, fortunately, the gentleman liked it. And then the photo desk called said, Do you have high-res photos? We did. She said, Patty still said, Don't get your hopes up. And then the week after it was like starting at 3 a.m. in Tucson, I started getting the calls from my East Coast friends going, How the heck did you ever get a you know, big picture in the New York Times? And then I got a call from the Chicago Historical Society and Costume Guild. And they said, Oh, we'd love to bring you in. Do you tour? Now, the first set was a very built-in set. It took place at Universal Studios. Uh, and it wasn't really a touring set. But as a good actor, when somebody says, Do you tour, what do you say?

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 18:31

Absolutely, we tour. I talked to my tech director, Jim, and we said, okay, so we we did. We, and that was really the birth of a conversation with Edith Head, because we realized we could tell the story anywhere and place it anywhere. Because in Chicago, the wisdom of the city fathers and mothers, the train would stop from Hollywood to New York. It would stop, and they would grab people off and they go to the ambassador to booth one. And there was a man there who had been the society band leader, and he actually did fashion shows with Edith, which was something a staple of what she did in the later years. She would go in, they have recreations of dresses, they would do music from the films, have society people dress. So we now, wherever we tour, anywhere in the world where we have toured, and I usually can find a connection, uh, regardless of how obscure it is. So that that was kind of the birth of a conversation with Edith Head, and people say, Oh, don't you get tired? It's never, it's not really a one-person show because the audience is able to ask time-appropriate questions, nothing after 1981 when she passed. But the pictures surround and it's the memories people have that they bring to it, or if you've never even knew who Edith is or was, you can get a sense of the piece. And you know, truly, because when you see a Grace Kelly, you see Elizabeth Taylor, this happened in our first international was in the Republic of Georgia.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

In Tbilisi. It was an international theater festival. And they said, Do you want to do it, you know, with subtitles? And I said, No, I'll do it in English, because most uh Georgians do speak English. It's like a third language. Um, but they'll watch me and uh look above me to read and they'll get the gist of it. And they did, they absolutely did, and they knew who Edith Head was. So it's been exciting that way, and it's a it's a privilege. And I I don't know that I'll ever tire of it because every show is different.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

And you have been a staple at uh the last few fundraising gallas for the Pan Am Museum, and it's just you're just a hoot. I love you because what I also like about your work is you are introducing Edith Head in the history that she made as the most famous costume designer in Hollywood history. You're opening up this world to people that may not have appreciated it. Tell us a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

It's very exciting that way, not only in uh what she did in film, but just what she did as a woman in a boys club. You know, starting in 1923, women just got the vote very recently, and it was definitely a boys' club on in every single way. And she played the game better than anyone. She did the research, she knew how to work with directors, she knew how to work with actors, she was very discreet, which was really. Important to her. And for instance, in when we were in London, we had some young East Indian, wonderful young people, and they were just terrific. Notes in our guest books that thank you. Edith had showed me that I can have the courage to pursue what I want to do, which is be a writer. So she became not only a role model for young designers, but just a role model. And for history, there was a young girl when we did an exhibit uh in Lancaster with Randelthrop, who's the archivist at Paramount, uh Lancaster, Ohio. And we got note that this young girl was coming up from West Virginia who did a 4-H project on Edith Head. So shame up, she was so detailed in the project she had won, had the whole history on a trifold. And I, as Edith, was with her when she did a presentation.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

Oh, that's so great.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

Isn't it fast forward? It's Halloween. I get a picture from her, and she's dressed not as Edith Head, but as Susan Clausen as Edith Head. And then she just graduated from high school. So I sent her for graduation a little Edith Headpin and on her, you know, gown or the banner or whatever they wear next to her achievements was the little dress form that I had sent her. So it's so touching. You never know, really, in theater, and I probably all of our professions, I think, when there's a passion that's behind it, how it's going to affect the one person, not even the masses, but one person when it affects their life and you're open to receiving that, it makes all the difference in the world.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

And I mean, Edith Head, like I love Alfred Hitchcock movies. And I I could just see Edith Head just walking into Hitch's office and no, we're doing it this way because of this. And Hitchcock just like, okay, whatever you want. I mean, she did Rear Window, The Trouble with Harry, to Catch a Thief, The Man Who Knew Too Much, Vertigo, The Birds, Notorious Marnie. I mean, I could go on and on. And she did Sunset Boulevard, which is also one of my favorites, Roman Holiday. I mean, you name it in Hollywood history. Edith Head was probably involved with it.

SPEAKER_02 24:50

Right. 1,131 films, but who's counting? Right. But and and eight Academy Awards, 35 nominations. For the first 21 years of the Academy Awards, there was no category for costume design. So only imagine how many. And it's a record that'll go unbroken because uh there are no studio designers anymore. In the day, every studio had their own designer. So, like when uh Edith did All About Eve, she was borrowed from Paramount to do the clothes for Betty Davis only in that film. So that Academy Award is shared with Charles LeMaire, who dressed everybody else, uh, and Edith, who dressed Betty Davis. And some actors just put in their contracts that they wanted Edith. She was great friends with Barbara Stanwyck. And Hitch, interestingly, when after Grace got left her Hollywood career for a jewel crown in Monaco, who wouldn't do that, you know, then Hitch was looking for the next Hitchcock blonde. They were already great friends. Uh Hitch and Alma, his wife, and Edith and her husband Bill. So when Hitch saw Tippi and it was in a commercial on the NBC, on the I think it was the Today Show, he brought Edith in to see it, brought Tippi out to Hollywood, and it and Edith was the third person after Alma to Me. It was a three-day screen test. They did they brought Martin Balsam in to do the screen test, full costuming. Tippi and Edith remained very good friends. So first time, and we did, we had played London and Edinburgh and Tbilisi and before we ever went into LA because I wanted to make sure we had the right venue. It was her backyard, and that we had the support of the Costume Designers Guild. So the first one was at the El Portal in North Hollywood in, I think it was 2011. And we got notice that Tippi was coming. And she wanted to present Edith with a couple of reproductions of sketches.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

Were you nervous?

SPEAKER_02 27:26

I wasn't really, because I, you know, I do so much research that I know I'm honoring Edith's memory. In no way would I do anything that was really out of character for her. Uh and Tippi was, you know, was great. She was there in the front row, and then after, and when she came up, you know, her eyes sort of glazed over, and she was back with Edith, her good friend. And it was so, you know, touching and wonderful. And she gave two reproductions of personal wardrobe, because there were no stylists then. If if a star was going out, they would go to the studio designer and be dressed. And these were personal wardrobe when they were doing appearances for the birds. The whole bird's budget was $5,000.

SPEAKER_04 28:20

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 28:20

These dresses, $25,000. You know, the difference. So I had those reproductions, and Tippi was fabulous. And then we did a cruise with uh a crystal cruise back in the day with Tippi, was a film and theater cruise. And anytime uh we brought Tippi to Tucson to do a screening of the birds and come see the show, and anytime she just relates, even though she knows me, she wants to see Edith. And that was what we found. Why I stay as Edith, why does it work so great at the Pan Am Gala? You never see Susan, you always see Edith because people want to share. They want to share a memory, they want to share a film palace that they went to or a date or where they grew up. And that's what I, you know, I find that with all the flight attendants, I find that with any of the Pan Am crew, they're sharing. They'll go up to me and they'll go, Miss Head, your uniform was our favorite, you know. Um and the same with the with the stars, they just love it. And people, intro, but one other interesting was this this man and Stuart can gather you know questions. And he came back, he said, Her lawyer, your lawyer is there, because I was half in Edith and half out. And I said, My lawyer. He said, No, no, Edith's lawyer. And I in my research, I had known Edith gave all of her Academy Award tickets to her attorney because she was up in the booth commentating, and I knew where he was sitting because Stuart pointed at, you know, told me where. I went over and, you know, I think his name was David. I don't know, but I said, It's good to see you. And yes, you'll get your tickets again for the Academy Awards this year. And his eyes went, you know, big as saucers. Afterwards, when I'm doing the photos uh and staying as Edith, Stuart said that what he said to Stuart was everyone should have a chance to spend an afternoon with somebody they loved. And to me, isn't that the greatest compliment that he could go back and relive those moments? And that's why it's such an awesome responsibility and an incredible privilege to help keep her legacy alive.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

And let's pivot to Pan Am for a moment. So 1974, 1975, Pan Am calls up Edith Head and says, We would like for you to design a new uniform for us. That must have been a huge coup for Pan Am when she said yes.

SPEAKER_02 31:06

Absolutely. It was in the time that tour designers were designing then. You know, Valentina was at TWA, that they were there, but Edith had done Coast Guard also uniforms. So absolutely. Uh and interesting how my involvement, which was what you had asked, was that Philip Keane, who was doing the closer, was Purser, wasn't it? I think he was Purser for Pan Ann. And he and his his costume designer were huge Edith Head fans. They came to uh North Hollywood to see the show. We became fast friends, in addition. Uh, I went to the closer set as me, not as Edith. And and Greg adored and has a great sense of uh style. And the first that we did, we did a benefit for Pan Am on the on the back lot of Raleigh Studios. And that was the beginning of that connection. There was uh was Philip, who's divine in every single way. So when Edith got the call, you know, she she it's interesting because as she said, you know, in Hollywood, I designed for one star. When I designed for Pan Am, I'm designing for 4,000 stars. And she brought a unique sense of style. She did a handbook called Welcome to Our World of Fashion, Pan Am. So, and she wrote a note, if I may read it.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

Oh, can you read it as Edith Head?

SPEAKER_02 32:52

Absolutely, I can, Tom. A message from Edith Head. Welcome to Pan American World of Fashion. I have spent the better part of my life designing costumes for movie stars, but I don't remember ever having a design of one costume for 4,000 stars. This was my assignment for Pan American, one of the most challenging of my career. Even before I sat down, I you know, I talked to all of you. I got ideas of what you wanted. I interviewed and realized that what we needed to do was create something that had a professional look, a uniform with fashion, and that the world would endure for forever. My answer was to create for all seasons, which was unusual then. So she cre you know, and and it goes on to talk about she created uh a wool coat, which was standard issue, the really innovative things that she created, first time that women wore trousers. That was the first. She uh created fabrics that would work for the international travel that they did. So lightweight for the tropics, uh, short sleeve blouse for Hawaii. She had a trench coat uh for the drizzly weather of London, uh, things that were comfortable but were stylish. And she asked the people wearing them, she gave pointers on how these very stylish scarves could be tied. But in this handbook, she said, but experiment, experiment to see what would work for you. And the other really innovative was the floating belt, which was amazing. And she said, you know, and she had uh uh one of the hats designed, she said, can wear it down, you can turn it up. She gave pointers on all that in this handbook, also pointers. She gives what the fabric is so that you can take care of it because you have to, the minute you step out, you are representing Pan Am and it has to look good. And only Edith, this was something that she really believed in is that the tricks she knew in Hollywood could absolutely influence people all around the world. She shared them. She not only did this for Pan Am, but she made patterns that for vogue so that women everywhere and men too could follow that. So that was interesting. The travel tote was there. Uh she gave the jumper so that things were functional, that they could actually be able to do their job in a comfortable way and be stylish, down to the type of shoe and pump that would be worn. Uh, so that's really, really exciting. Also, she gave pointers on the total image, because it, as she says, there are three magicians in Hollywood: hair, costume, and makeup. So she has about hair. Your hair should be clean, shiny, and healthy. Ensure that the style is simple, attractive, feminine, uh, and practical. If it is uh the shoulder length, and I know a lot of the flight attendants have mentioned that. And she talks about your hair is your crowning glory. Then about cosmetics for glowing good looks, wear tasteful makeup, compatible with skin coloring and hair. For your hands, your hands are important because they are in uh absolutely the view of the passengers. That's what they see. So always keep them clean and well manicured. And then posture makes me sit up more straight now. Posture, stand up straight, legs, wear sheer hosiery or pantyhose in a color close to your natural skin color. And last but not least, get lots of rest and exercise. Eat a balanced diet, watch those uh snacks between meals, and guard your health, which I think was good advice for the weigh-ins, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:43

So it's very very comprehensive for a costume designer.

SPEAKER_02 37:47

Oh, it's so comprehensive. I'm sure she worked with, you know, as she said, she interviewed flight attendants. I'm just looking because it's a a six-page uh six-page pamphlet. Uh and again, on the care of that, talking about the fabrics that were used, like for the raincoat, 65% polyester, 35% cotton, professionally clean only. Then the blouses, hand wash. You could hand wash the blouses, that would be you know practical. Uh the apron, 100% polyester, so you could hand launder that. Sweaters, 100% uh texturized nylon, machine wash, so some practicality there, but that's really important. We all have had disasters in cleaning things or washing things, so it's really a comprehensive and wonderful. And interestingly, even before my initial uh contact with Philip, I was aware of Pan Am because people would tell me, because I would have flight attendants just come to the show and they would talk to me after and say, you know, we were up at the house on Coldwater Canyon, and Edith was so open to embracing us and wanting to know how we felt about it. And that was her philosophy, also in costume designing. She knew her her costumes would look only as good as the actors felt in them. So she was really, as she said, she was a better diplomat than a designer. She knew she had to involve people in this.

SPEAKER_00 39:30

Fascinating. We're gonna listen to a quick clip. It's about three and a half minutes long. It's from 1959. Charles Collingwood uh had a program called Person to Person. Let's hear Edith Head uh talk about her profession and then get your reaction.

SPEAKER_03 39:50

And then you know, sometimes, Charles, we have to tell a story. Now, for instance, let me show you an example. In a picture, tall but not for mean of two women. Now, Clark Gable cannot decide which one to marry. He cannot decide whether to marry young and Richard or Carol Baker, or whether to marry glamorous and licking. So I have to help you decide for the way I dress the girl. Then another chance, actually showing Caroline Clothes, is a picture like this. A picture called career. Now here's the same problem. Here's Carolyn Jones, who's a working woman, is a career girl, she's glad of it. Here's Shirley McLean, whose only career is in being a woman. Now the point is, which girl gets the best?

SPEAKER_01 40:30

Edith, and I think you smacked the cards there with those clothes. I suppose men present an entirely different set of problems, don't they, for a fashion designer?

SPEAKER_03 40:39

So much easier, Charles. I can't begin to tell you. You see, I think that most women basically distrust other women, and I being a woman designer, they distrust me. For example, if I were to say to Harry Gremlin, please wear a gray sweater, he'd wear it without any possible controversy. But if I were to say to this leading lady, would you mind wearing a pink sweater with Mr. Gremlins? A gray woman? He said, Well, why don't I wear a blue sweater? That's a problem.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

How can a woman um what do you regard as a sort of basic rule for a well-dressed woman?

SPEAKER_03 41:09

You mean women who are not necessarily motion pictures to myself?

SPEAKER_01 41:11

Yes, anyone.

SPEAKER_03 41:12

You know, the millions of women I do work with do have problems to make functions, and that's why the book the dress doctor was written. It was to help the millions of women who are not in pictures and who do need professional help. Did you know that a lot of women have bigger problems?

SPEAKER_01 41:26

Well, I've noticed that is.

SPEAKER_03 41:28

Well, anyway, there are four major ones. A woman can be too smart and too thin or too short or too tall. Now, what I have done to educate what I call the clothes clinic, you see what that is? That's what you call a living pattern. And I can take a short, dumpy woman, put the white belt on, and say, My dear, you couldn't look worse. You should not wear a white striped belt. Then suppose I get a woman who has hips. That happens to women. I say, wear a fullness, disguise your hips. You know, we have a rule in the studio. If it isn't pretty, don't show it.

SPEAKER_01 41:58

That's a rule I agree with. Um, how can a woman in general be sure whether or not uh a particular dress is the right dress for her, Edith?

SPEAKER_03 42:06

You mean how she can analyze herself?

SPEAKER_01 42:08

Well, I suppose it comes to that.

SPEAKER_03 42:09

Well, did you know that most women can analyze other people? In other words, a woman can say to her next-door neighbor, you look terrible, your skirt's too short. But very few women can actually be honest with themselves. So this is what you do. See what this is? That is a paper bag. You've got a paper bag. You've got two bones, like that, see? Over your head. Now you're no longer talking to yourself. You're talking to some woman whom you do not know very well, and you can be quite cool.

SPEAKER_01 42:41

Well, you look different.

SPEAKER_03 42:43

No, but you see, the thing is, I'm I've become objective. I'm not myself. I like to look in the mirror and say, Edith, your hips are too big, your skirt is too short, your shoulders are too narrow. In other words, this may sound silly to you, but it actually truly works. If you can take people and try to get them to look at themselves objectively, then there'll be fewer badly dressed women.

SPEAKER_01 43:03

Incidentally, I might mention here that I like that that uh dress or suit, I guess it is, that you're wearing tonight.

SPEAKER_03 43:10

And it's white cashmere, and I hope it makes me look very tall, very thin.

SPEAKER_00 43:14

Well, it makes you look very pretty, I can say that.

SPEAKER_03 43:17

It's wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 43:18

Susan, what do you think?

SPEAKER_02 43:21

Oh, it's perfect advice. When that clip, and I I've seen the the visual clip, and they were up at Edith's house, really, a person to person would go uh do famous celebrities, and they would actually film at the house. And so when we were researching, we um the the academy put together a reel. I'm watching it when the brown bag moment came out, and here she is in a round glasses, she pulls out a brown bag, it's cut with two perfectly. Round circles. I do it in the show. I absolutely, you can't write it. It's transcribed from that moment. She always considered herself to be the dress doctor. That's why, as I said, she did these patterns for Vogue. When she was on uh Art Link Letter on House Party, which was in the 50s, it was a radio show first, then went on TV. And Art Link Letter was the host. You have guest experts come on. So Edith came on as a Hollywood costume designer telling people what was wrong with how they dressed or how they accessorized. As she says, she was doing makeovers before they ever coined the term. So and you know, so and she would tell it like it was, you know. And then I always say in the show too, that Gerital or the other sponsors would request that she be nicer to the ladies. She says, I tried, but sometimes I just had to be blunt, you know. So and so you'll see she was so astute and so ahead of her times. And what she said in the beginning of that uh clip, certainly the job of a costume designer is to further the narrative of the film. And she would do that. She adored Grace Kelly. Grace Kelly was the ultimate Hitchcock blonde. She felt Grace could wear anything, she was a model. When Grace did The Country Girl in 1954, one of her greatest challenges was to make Grace Kelly look plain. But that's what furthered the narrative of the film. And Grace won the Academy Award that year. Edith designed her red carpet dress for the opening or the Academy Awards. That dress at that time was the highest price dress made. It is always. Now we're going back 54. How many years? 70. 70 years ago? 70? Yeah. God, is it? Yes. My God. That dress when they uh around Academy Wartime, they always put the top 10 dresses of all time. That dress for Grace Kelly is always on the top 10 list. And it was the cover of Life magazine. Life never did fashion on the cover until Grace in that dress.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

Interesting. And you know, the profession of costume designer is if it's done really, really well, you won't notice it. Kind of like music in in movies. I think music and costumes are kind of an unsung hero and they make or break a movie. For instance, Jaws without John Williams uh would probably be pretty boring, or Star Wars without John Williams, or Vertigo. Or Vertigo, yeah, without uh uh Bernard Herriman. But when you I mean, I can't even imagine Tippy Hendron being in the birds without that green suit, or you know, Gloria Swanson in all of her gowns in Sunset Boulevard. I mean, that's all Edith had.

SPEAKER_02 47:32

And you want to know something? In Sunset Boulevard, the the film was up for 11 Academy Awards. Edith wasn't even nominated. Can you imagine? And I've got great backstory. You know, when when uh they were in Billy Wilder's office, you know, he wanted Gloria Swanson um or Norma Desmond to convey a feeling of the past, but he didn't want to recreate it, he didn't want anything ridiculous. So what Edith did was just add a touch of the bizarre to each of the costumes, uh, and it worked brilliantly in there. And and as she says, with each director, you develop a certain language, and with Hitch, she didn't even need words, he was so detailed on what he wanted, and it was up to Edith to interpret that for Grace Kelly. It was, I want her to look like a piece of Dresden China in rear in rear window.

SPEAKER_00 48:32

Oh, yeah, that scene where the big reveal, uh Jimmy Stewart is is opening his eyes, and and there's Grace Kelly coming into focus in that beautiful dress. Like, oh my gosh, such an iconic piece of Hollywood.

SPEAKER_02 48:46

And you know what? He slowed the camera down. When when she came in, you immediately knew she was a fashion maven, really, and that he with his leg in the cast, you know, and she came in and she flips on this light and she flips on that light. The camera was just slowed down a wee bit. So when she came in for that kiss, it's one of the most iconic kisses uh, I think, in cinematic history, there, but it's definitely uh a gorgeous, gorgeous uh uh fashion statement. Uh and and I thought it was interesting what you said about costumes, and they sh they should some some like hitch and uh William Weiler, very authentic. Cecil B. DeMille never did an authentic picture in his entire life. Yeah, everything's over the top. Everything's over the top, and Edith, it was beyond Edith, but you know, she was she did what what he asked and created it to the best, but she always went to bat for her actors. Uh, and she, as I said earlier, she was very discreet. That's why there are no kiss and tell books about Edith. Lucille Ball says, uh, Edith knew all of our secrets, but she never told.

SPEAKER_00 50:16

Interesting. Uh, let's get back to Pan Am calling Edith Head and asking, hey, can you design some uniforms for us? She just got off her Academy Award-winning nomination for The Sting in 1973 movie. And now this iconic airline is calling. What do you think was going through Edith Head's mind? And how did the industry take it?

SPEAKER_02 50:44

I think what was going through her mind is she also in '67 left Paramount because her contract was not renewed, but corporations came in. And Edith understood branding before anyone had a name for it. With the sting, that was the last Academy Award that she received. And it was interesting because the first time in the history of the Academy Academy Awards, that for there was no female star, you know, which usually there is to dress. But as she alluded to in the clip, also, she would prefer to work with men. I just imagine, as she says, dressing or undressing the two most handsome men in the world, Paul Newman and Robert Redford. So when the call came, it was really when flight attendants and cabin personnel were, it was being designed by other airlines. Pan Am was her airline of choice because she traveled so much internationally. Um, domestically, she couldn't, but internationally, she would always fly Pan Am. And it was the cachet of designing for Pan Am. She was thrilled. And the studio, you know, by that time, because of her friendship with Alfred Hitchcock and with Lou Wasserman, it was ahead of Universal, when it was not renewed at Paramount, she went over to Universal, but there were less films being made. She had to do more things out of the studio. She went out to do her fashion shows. So when this came, the studios loved it because again, it was Edith Head from Universal Studios designing Pan Am uniforms. It was an exciting time for her. And I think she loved the research. I think she loved meeting everyone and being able to create for their comfort level for their style. But can you imagine? I mean, look at the body types. Every type, the a person worked at Pan Am just like they did in Hollywood. In Hollywood, there were dress forms. You can see each star had their own dress form. So they could do the bulk of the work on that. But she would suggest that things be fitted and they would do fittings. There's one little article here where when they go for uh uniform fitting, uh I joined Pan Am, and it was like the uniform fitting had been a wedding dress fitting, the way the C seamstress made a fuss, and she was given her very own sky blue Edith had designed uniform. It was a dream, a dream. Uh come come true for people who had that. And you see the label in the uniform, it's her signature, the same label that would be in a Hollywood costume. And you know, she designed Boeing Boeing. Do you know that film? Yeah, yeah. She designed the uniforms for that. She designed Airport.

SPEAKER_00 54:00

Airport, yeah, Academy Award-winning movie. Yeah, that's right. And I think she did all of the airport movies. Yeah. I mean, the first two were were okay. I mean, the first one was good, but then it got a little bit of a 70s. 75 was the second one, and I think 77 and 79. And to our listeners, the only reason why I remember it is because it was called Airport 77 and Airport 79.

SPEAKER_02 54:25

Yeah, but and it's interesting. Some of the you know, Gloria Swanson.

SPEAKER_00 54:29

Oh, yeah, and Jimmy Stewart, too, like Christopher Lee, all of these really, really uh blockbuster stars starred in all of those airport disaster films. And because of that, we have the comedic masterpiece, Airplane, coming out, um, making fun of all of those airport movies. So it was it was great that uh it's great that we're talking about it because I I completely forgot about it. But Edith Head also was very well known to the public, and she had this incredible sense of humor. Um, I'm gonna play another clip. Uh, one of the other franchises that I love is Columbo with Peter Falk. And Peter Falk actually gave Edith Head uh her her Oscar in '73 uh for the sting.

SPEAKER_05 55:17

It's twiggy.

SPEAKER_00 55:18

Yeah. Uh and and Edith had, I think, had like, you know, a couple, uh, not even a minute of her uh acceptance speech, and then she left.

SPEAKER_02 55:28

Basically, she said thank you.

SPEAKER_00 55:30

Yeah, she said thank you. It was great, you know, dressing these two handsome guys, you know. See you later. But so Edith had played herself in an episode of Columbo, and I'm gonna play a clip. Ann Baxter played the uh the murderer who was also an actress. Uh, and this was from a 1973 episode of Columbo. Let's take a listen.

SPEAKER_10 55:54

A little overdressed for this time of the day, huh? What do you think? You couldn't care less. Edith is designing a whole new wardrobe for me. Oh, Edith? This is Lieutenant Columbo. How do you do? Edith head.

SPEAKER_09 56:09

How do you do?

SPEAKER_10 56:10

Which of these do you think would be better for the new scene? Yes, no, I like this one. I wanted to it, but I don't like the red. I think this would be a lot better. Are you still wearing that tie? You know, ever since I met you, you've been wearing this stupid thing. Edith, since you got a decent tie around.

SPEAKER_09 56:30

Of course, I had this one I see on the Academy Awards. What's her name? Edith Head. Edith Head. Those are her office.

SPEAKER_10 56:45

Yes, I say fantastic. Lieutenant? I've been lying to you.

SPEAKER_09 56:54

About one.

SPEAKER_10 56:55

About Jerry Parks and me. Remember when you found us together yesterday and I said we were just talking about genes? Yeah. Well, Jerry Parks has some awful stuff on me. He has research records in his class. And I didn't want him to tell you. Oh, it just wouldn't do this. Oh, that's perfect. Oh, yeah, too much. Yeah. Oh, Edie. Would you uh would you bring in that ombre should find a level address? Yeah. Thank you, darling.

SPEAKER_00 57:26

So, Susan, what can you tell us about Edith Head and her cameos?

SPEAKER_02 57:33

Well, there's a lot because in this one, the whole segment, it visually is great because she often would display her Oscars. She said, There's nothing like a row of Oscars for putting the fear of God into a young actress who thinks she knows everything about dress design.

SPEAKER_00 57:52

And so And she would also they would make appearances in interviews, too, right? She would just bring them wherever.

SPEAKER_02 57:58

Absolutely. Absolutely. She loved that when they asked, you know, who are most who were the most important men in her life. And I I don't know that she ever said this, but kind of maybe. Uh I when I asked that question, I always say, all of them are named Oscar, you know. So this was great because Ann Baxter was a great friend of Edith's. And in fact, Ann Baxter's daughter is Edith's goddaughter.

SPEAKER_00 58:30

Interesting. So I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_02 58:32

Melissa contacted me through her publicist years ago, and she said, I'm Melissa Galt, and uh Aunt Edie was my godmother. Well, I have a copy of Edith Head's will, and Edith collected Southwest jewelry and all. And Melissa, she gifted me with this beautiful necklace that's always on the set. When your listeners see the show, uh, it's uh amber and uh a silver patina kind of thing. It's just wonderful, and so that's great. Now there's other cameos that Edith did in Lucy Gallant. She played herself. It takes place in West Texas, and Jane Wyman was in it, and there was a fashion show, and there are different theories uh where the director encouraged Edith to take her glasses off. One, maybe they were reflective, but two, for the beauty of it.

SPEAKER_00 59:37

Well, she couldn't read a damn thing, you know, maybe she couldn't have her glasses, and her glasses were her signature.

SPEAKER_02 59:44

Well, as we know with Edna Mode, her glasses were her signature, the bangs, and she had a chignon that she said she used for pencils. And then there was the Oscar. There was a film called The Oscar, and Edith played herself in it. So, and and when with the acceptance speech, which is so funny, the first one of the first was Bob Hope, was and he was the ultimate host of the Academy Awards, right? So Edith's name is called, she comes up, she takes the award, she poses, she smiles, and she leaves. And Bob says, Edith says, Thank you. She never said anything. You know, she was basically shy. And in fact, she credits Art Linkletter for bringing her out. And I interviewed Art Linkletter, he was still with us. His office was on Will Shear, and he actually recorded some that I've used in some shows. But he next to you was perhaps the most wonderful interview and bringing out, but he he really did. He taught her how to be able to do that, and then she was on radio, she was on TV, she was the face of what a costume designer did, and she embraced it. She was syndicated in 36 magazines. That's unheard of. She knew that everybody was just waiting to take over, and and in Hollywood, you're you know, the whether legacy is respected, it has to be really finessed, and she knew she was only as as good as the next project, so she never turned down a film in the day. She would work 30 or 40 films, if you can imagine.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:38

Wow, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:40

Definitely a woman ahead of her times.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:43

So you have brought Edith Head uh alive, and you're introducing her to a whole new generation. How does that make you feel that you you're taking this wonderful lady and her wonderful accomplishments, and you're able to bring it to life for other people to learn about and appreciate her work?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:05

It's it's absolutely touches my heart and soul in every single, every single way. And I stay in touch with people who have seen the show, and they'll come back, you know, with notes or uh what it meant to them to be able to do it. And with Edna Mode now, it opens up, she opened up the generation for kids. And I love if I'm in a sit-down run longer than one or two performances, I love doing the show for young people. I do uh a teaching guide, I put it in their vernacular. Before there was Project Runway, there was Edith Head, and I do lists of how they can find it. They totally relate to Edith in in every way because her message is really clear. Style comes from the inside out. Don't follow fads, find a look that's attractive to you, and you know, you can have anything you want in life as long as you dress for it. These are messages that kids, and because she does have a dry but wicked sense of humor, as you pointed out, it comes out in the show, and I had to learn to be less animated than who I am, who Suze is. I work with, you know, uh certainly a voice and movement as we crafted uh the show. She was a teacher, so she really talked in a clipped kind of way, but it's so meaningful that all ages are relating. And I know you you know love Alfred Hitchcock, so do I. And it's it's great when films back in the day when I first started and there were video stores. Remember that?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:02

Yes, I do. Blockbuster video and exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:06

I would always, when I was in a town, people would say when they would go that the films were checked out because you wanted to see them.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:16

Oh, that's great. That's great.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:18

When we were in LA, there was like the Art Institute, which was a design thing, and it was right across from the theater. So I went over and said, I'd love to you know talk and bring the students over. 95.8% had never heard of Edith Head. Now these were design kids, graphic designers. So they put a reel together of some of the great cinematic moments. And I was there as me, and we talked about those. And then 80 students came over, they fell in love, and you know they're watching classic films now and understanding that and going, you know, backstory with Alfred Hitchcock, uh, all of those things which really matter because there's so many life lessons that have nothing necessarily to do with Hollywood, but have everything to do with what film represented to people in other countries. It was the way that they learned English, they understood values of America, it represented a world that they only knew through the cinema. And to me, to keep that alive, to keep alive a woman who who really followed a dream. She was not an artist, she had a master's degree from Stanford in romantic languages, but went after it, stayed with it, reinvented herself, had over a 60 year career, never Walked off a set, you realize that she could be a role model for anyone in any career.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:08

And Susan's website is edithhead.biz. And there will be a link in the episode description to link to her website. For our listeners that might not know, The Incredibles, we were talking about the character of Edna Mode, is a 2004 Pixar animated film. And Edna Mode is a character that is a cross between Edith Head, looks like Edith Head, and Q from James Bond. And we are going to do something interesting on the Pan Am podcast. We are going to play a clip of Edna Mode, and then we're going to get Susan's reaction.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:52

Do you have an appointment? I'm an old friend. I just wanted to visitors are required to make a ready.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:57

Go check the electric fence or something. What is it? Who are you? What do you want? My god, you've gotten fat. Come in, come, come. Yes, things are going quite well. Quite well, my god. No complaints. But you know, it is not the same. Not the same at all.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:23

Weren't you just in the news on the show and pray, Broad?

SPEAKER_08 1:07:26

Milan, darling. Milan. Super ones. I think super about them, super stupid little stick figures with poofy lips that they go live at themselves. I used to design for God. Hmm. But perhaps you'll come with a challenge, eh? I was surprised to get your call. E. I just need a pass, John. Hmm, this is mega mass, not modded, but very sturdy, and you've torn my throat. What have you been doing, Robert? On making hero work? Must have happened a long time ago. I see. This is a horrible suit, darling. You can't be seen in this. I must allow it. Maybe a button now. What do you mean? You designed it. I never looked back, darling. It distracts from the now.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:16

You need a new suit, don't you? A new suit? Oh, where the heck am I gonna get a new suit?

SPEAKER_08 1:08:21

You can't! It's impossible! I'm far too busy, so ask me now before I can become sane.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:26

Wait, you want to make me a suit?

SPEAKER_08 1:08:29

You push too hard, darling, but I accept.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:33

It will be bold, dramatic, heroic. Yeah, something classic, like uh dynagai. Oh, he had a great look. And the boots. No capes.

SPEAKER_08 1:08:46

Isn't that my decision? Do you remember Thunderhead? Tall storm powers. Nice man. Good with capes. Listen. November 15th of 58. All was well another day's day when his cape snagged on the middle of the.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:03

Thunderhead was not the brightest balls in the game.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:06

Dr. Gam! April 23rd, 57. Kate caught in a jet turbine.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:12

You can't generalize the buttons. Mr.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:14

Man, Express Elevator! Dynagon, Stenagon Table. Smash down, sucked into a vortex. No kits. Now go on. Your no-suit will be finished before your next assignment.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:25

You know I'm retired from hero work. As am I, Robert. Yet here we are. E. I only need a patch job for sentimental reasons. Fine.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:37

I will also fix the hobo suit.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:40

You're the best of the best, yes, I know, darling.

unknown 1:09:43

I know.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:44

I'd like to speak to Edmund, please. Edmund. E? This is Helen.

unknown 1:09:48

Helen.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:49

Helen Parr?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:52

You know.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:54

Elastic or while listen, there's only one person Bob would trust to patch a super suit, and that's you, Eve. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Marvelous, isn't it? Much better than those horrible pajamas heels to win. Right now finish. When are you coming to see? Don't make me beg, darling. I won't do it, you know. Uh no, I'm I'm calling a bag about suit. About about Bob suit. I'm calling about Bob suit. You'll come in one hour, darling. I insist, okay. Okay, goodbye.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:28

All right. Welcome back, Susan. Uh, so Edna Mode is voiced by Brad Bird, the director of the Incredibles of Pixar Film 2004. Give us your reaction to that hilarious clip.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:43

I love every second of Edna Mode. Now, Brad, interestingly, they uh they will not say it's an homage to Edith because they never paid for right of likeness of publicity.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:58

But obviously it is.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:59

Obviously, obviously it is. I mean, I can be walking down the street and people go, Edna, you know, but it's hilarious. It's she is such a great character and no capes constantly, you know, you think of those lines. So the when the film came out, Jim, who's my tech director and friend and always is on tour, and Bella and I, we went. And it was like, oh my God, it was just when the doll came out. And I'm going, it's Hanukkah, Jim. I want the doll. So of course I got the doll, which you know is an interactive and talk to you. Now, the first thing Edna can say it, no one else could. If somebody came in and they lowered the windshield, my God, you got fat. Could you say that? You can't say those you cannot say those things, but Edna. So I have such a collection of Edna Mode ornaments and Edmund Edna Mode uh zipper ties and Edna Mode everything, which is is terrific. It's it's just a great, great film. You think of when I talk about the face of a designer, an animated character, a postal stamp. The post office did a whole series of Hollywood creatives. Well, who's the one for costume design?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:30

Edith Head.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:32

Edith Head. Google Doodle, not in a landmark year for a birthday or you know a celebration. I get a call from the Motion Picture and Television Fund saying you cannot tell a soul, but on this date, a Google Doodle is going to come out that's a tribute to Edith Head. We want you to come out and spend the day. We want you to do a Google Hangout all day, and then I did the show for the motion picture and television fund, but I couldn't tell anyone. I'm you know, how hard is that when you with a Google Doodle coming out? It came out at midnight, my website crashed because there was so it wasn't is it the broadband or whatever, it didn't have enough. So, you know, I had to get my web designer, we increased it immediately, and it was so much fun. And there's a a video on on the website, I think it's up there, that um shows me at the motion picture and television fund. And Edith, as I said, left her estate there. So there's a a um a uh a plaza in her honor, and I just stayed as Edith, so so many people had worked with Edith. And again, it's that sharing. Because I do so much research, I feel comfortable talking uh in her voice as far as the way she would think about things. Uh so that was great. But Edna there's no one like our Edna mode for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:16

How long does it take to get into costume and get into character?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:21

Um it because I now I've done probably 1200 performances over the years. I do the same prep. I go through the script twice a day on performance days. I change at least two weeks before I'm going out because Edith never wore when she was working color uh uh on her nails and I always wear red, you know. Suze does. I change and go to what I have, my Edith Nails to get used to my hands. And then the wig was created. Bob Mackey was a sketch artist for Edith, so he was part of our interviewing, and he said, Well, you can do your own hair. And I said, Well, yeah, I'd rather go for a total transformation. So we um went to Bob Mackey's uh Renata of Burbank, uh his wig designer. And my head was measured in every single way, it's a handmade wig, hand-tied every human hair. And because we do such close-up work, you know, the it it's really important because I'm so close to people that it looks real and natural and part. So I always put that on, and first I eat the same thing before, you know, ritualistic uh before a performance.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:53

What is that?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:54

Well, usually if I have the thing, it's a little bit of it's rice, a little fish, a little string beans, and and try to eat it early enough that everything settles that way. Rarely do I even have a you know a glass of wine up leading up to this in the weeks before, because I just want to make sure there's clarity, because as I said, it's it's an enormous responsibility in doing this kind of production and being somebody else in such a manner that people believe it. And then I go get to the theater really early. I love being in a theater early and alone. I go through it all. I always do full rehearsals before um actually opening to the audience. So that's in my tech writer that we have that ability to be able to do it. I listen to some audio that I have, uh, some of those radio clips, just to get the voice going again in my head. And then I wait for the questions to come back, which are different, you know. As I said, they have to be time appropriate. Once in Phoenix, this was a great this the question that came back was I was a tram driver at Universal Studios in 1973. Uh, do you remember me? And I had him stand up, and it was a theater in Phoenix that had the kind of a dress circle. He stood up and and I said, Oh, and I knew his name, Buzz. Or I said, now Buzz, you were the one who had that distinctive toot toot, toot, toot when the tram came by. And he goes, That's right, Miss Head. Whether it did or not, he transformed it to that. And they would say at Universal Studios Tour, Edith Head was the biggest star they would ever see on the tour because she played it right. She'd hear the toot toot, she'd grab an Oscar, she'd step out, she'd wave, or she'd grab a sketch pad and and draw, you know, because again, it was her fan base that kept her going. And and she had those fans throughout the country.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:22

Anything you'd like to share with our listeners as we near the end of this interview.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:29

This has been so much fun. You are such a smart interviewer, and I love that you love Alfred Hitchcock because she did so much. You know, she designed for all of the Hitchcock blondes. So it's as I have said, uh it is such a privilege, it is such uh an honor to help keep her legacy, to perform, and to be a part of each aspect of her life, and Pan Am being one of the most important.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:59

Well, thank you very much for your time, Susan. Again, Susan's website is edithhead.biz. And there is a link in the episode description to visit her website. And I can't thank you enough.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:13

Well, thank you, Tom. It's always a privilege to be with you, such a handsome fellow.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:19

And I'm Edith Head approved, my tuxedo at least was at the gala last year.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:25

After she fixed your tie.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:27

Yes, uh, it was a little it was a little crooked, but just askew a bit. All right, Susan. Well, thank you so much. And uh again, thank you for coming on the program. Pan Am was a pioneer in air travel and still stands as one of the most iconic and innovative airlines in aviation history. That legacy lives on at the Pan Am Museum in Garden City, New York, where you can explore the rich history of the aircraft and individuals at the heart of the company known as the world's most experienced airline. For more information about the Pan Am Museum, check out our website at www.thepanammuseum.org. You can also find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok. As was once a tagline in one of our commercials, we would greatly appreciate your support to help the Pan Am Museum continue making the going great. You can also support the museum by shopping on our online store for all things Pan Am accessories, apparel, jewelry, books, models, and posters. We want to hear from you. If you have a question for us or want to share your story, our email address is podcast at the Pan Ammuseum.org. As flight crews once said to passengers departing for their destinations around the world, thank you for flying, Pan Amérique.