SPEAKER_01 0:14

Welcome to the Pan Am Podcast, brought to you by the Pan Am Museum in Garden City, New York. This podcast and our museum are dedicated to celebrating the legacy of the world's most iconic airlock, Pan American World Airways. My name is Tom Betty, and I'm the host of this program. Thank you for joining us. The Pan Am Museum Foundation is a nonprofit organization. Please visit our website for more information at the Pan Ammuseum.org. Again, our website is the Panamuseum.org. You can find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok. If you are using Apple Podcasts, please consider leaving a review. It will help others discover this program. This podcast is sponsored by the generous personal support of Mr. Adam Arend, the CEO and chairman of AMC Theaters. He is also president of our sister organization, the Pan Am Historical Foundation. If you're not familiar with Pan Am, welcome. We are honored to have you here and for you to learn about what we're all about. If you already know of Pan Am, worked for, or flown on the airline, or just love our history, it's good to be with you again. So with that, let's get this episode in the air, so to speak. Welcome aboard your Pan American jet clipper. Navigating a pivotal era of transition, resilience, and global adventure for the world's most iconic airline. Today she still flies, carrying forward the spirit of Pan Am on international charter missions, and she is usually flying on a Boeing 747. But Tanya's story reaches far beyond her years in uniform. She is an avid, lifelong learner traveler, and is always making connections and seeking adventure. Tanya has been a Hollywood film extra on productions such as the films Catch Me If You Can and War of the Worlds, as well as the television series The West Wing. She is the author of the powerful memoir on Butterfly's Wings, a deeply personal journey through loss, renewal, and the healing power of human connection. In her book, Tanya intertwines her Pan Am experiences with the transformative events that shaped her life, offering readers a story that is both uplifting and profoundly human. We'll talk about Tanya's time with Pan Am and the soul of the airline's culture, the moments in the sky that changed her, and the experiences, some beautiful, some heartbreaking, that ultimately became the heart of her book on Butterfly's Wings. Her book reminds us that even in our most difficult moments, there is grace, strength, and as she writes, the chance to rise, just like a butterfly. There is a link in the episode description to purchase Tanya's book. She also has an exciting new project in the works for 2026 as the host of an international radio show called The Global Gratitude Show with Tanya Anderson that will be beamed to more than 150 countries from Brushwood Media. I'd like to introduce Tanya Anderson to the Pan Am podcast. Thank you for joining us, Tanya.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

Good to see you again, Tom.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

So I read your book, and the one question I have is what have you not done?

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Oh wow. Well, there are a few places I'd like to visit where I haven't been. I'd like to go to Tibet and Bali and uh New Zealand. But there's I I like to joke and say I've done every kind of flying except rendition flying.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

So well, it's it's your book is is very captivating, and you have a very, very interesting and fascinating life and story. Let's start with the beginning. Where were you born? And tell us a little bit about your parents and uh your first uh you know 10 years or so, and then we can start the conversation from there.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

Okay, well, um, I was actually uh conceived in Venezuela, which is pretty funny because my parents had been married nine years, and they were everybody was thinking that they wouldn't be able to have any kids, and then all of a sudden, bam, here I come. Uh, I grew up in McLean, Virginia, CIA territory right outside of DC. And uh then my parents got divorced when I was six, but it's okay. It it's it's part of what was supposed to happen in my life, so I'm I'm fine with it. Yeah, you know, uh, because they both love me so much, so that's what really counts. And then uh my father sent me to school in England when I was 14 because he was very ill with emphysema and he was on his way out of this world. So he wanted to get me all settled. And he found the name of the school. It's called Millfield School, and a lot of very, very well-known people have gone there, uh, royals and also uh well, Elizabeth Taylor's two sons, Chris, uh Chris and Michael Wilding, the present king of Thailand, King Rama the 10th. Oh wow. So and my father found out about the school from a uh a countess, lovely lady. Her her husband was uh attacked attached to the Dutch embassy as uh like the number three man in the Navy, and uh and they were a count and countess, the Van Lindens. And she first recommended a girl school like Benedon, like where I think where Princess Anne went. And even at 13, Tom, I said, Oh no, Daddy, not a girl school. Uh-uh-uh-uh. So and that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

What did your father do?

SPEAKER_00 6:23

Oh, he was he was an attorney and an architect. So he served before the United States Supreme Court as as an attorney, and then he also built uh Fox Hall Village in DC, which is up near the French Embassy, kind of in that area, the wooded area. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

So you you were shipped off to England for boarding school, right? So this is like an all-inclusive school that you lived at. That's right, for four years. So tell us a little bit about that experience.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

Well, it wasn't easy at first. Uh, it was kind of funny because he had he arranged because I was a UM, an unaccompanied minor. So he had arranged for uh me to go on Air India to London. The reason for that was because he had known Raj Malik, who was uh executive, and said, Well, she'll be well looked up uh after. It was on a Boeing 707. I remember looking at the engines and thinking my life will never be the same again after this. But then after uh dinner and they turned the lights down, the the navigator came back and sat next to me and tried to kiss me. Oh, wow. Jump, jump in, like you had to just jump in the deep end, right? And you're 14 years old? Oh, 14 by myself. And I said, Hey, buddy, who's flying the plane?

SPEAKER_01 7:36

And that certainly would not have happened on Pan Am.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

No way, but uh, and all the uh, and see, I I've always been um very fascinated by ethnicity and cultures, and all the flight attendants were wearing soris of different colors, and I'm thinking, oh, this is right up my alley, and and you know, and I like the the food, you know, the curry and all that sort of thing. So my first about my first year and a half in England was not that easy. You know, the the Brits were kind of tough. What are you bloody Yanks doing in Vietnam? And I was listening to all that sort of stuff, and you know, what am I supposed to do? I'm 14 years old. My father's just passed away at Christmas time, you know, and what am I supposed to do? And then one day, Tom, when I was like 16, I said, you know what, I'm gonna get this jazz down to a science. So I made friends with all the Americans and then the foreigners, and then the Brits last. And to this day, I I have friends in in Jordan. Uh my Irish American boyfriend lives in Crete and I've been in touch with him. Uh Alexis Tambouros in in Athens, Mahmoon Zahed and Jeddah. I'm in touch with all of them. It's amazing, remarkable.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

Wow, and you can trace that all back to this school, correct? Absolutely. So the the school was a turning point in your life that kind of paved the way for your international adventures.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

Exactly. And it really dovetails with so I wasn't hired by Pan Am until I was 32. So it really dovetailed with that because I had that appetite for you know foreign things. I went back and forth every three months. So then I started flying on Pan Am on the old 707, you know, always an economy, never, never first. And so when I got hired by Pan Am, it it was just it just it just like uh square peg and a square hole.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

What year did you join Pan Am?

SPEAKER_00 9:17

Uh 85.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

So the 80s were a turbulent time for the airline industry. Tell us a little bit about joining Pan Am. Uh, so you joined at age 32. So a lot of your co-workers and people in your class when you joined were much younger. Tell us a little bit about that experience and then traveling the world in the 1980s.

SPEAKER_00 9:40

Well, it would it worked out really well because they not only uh some of them, the my two besties, one was 10 years younger and the other one was 10 years older. And I'm still in touch with the one who's 10 years older because they had had this lawsuit for returning mothers. And you know, in those days, remember it was the whole thing about how you had to um uh quit, uh you got a certain age, you got married. So these ladies had gotten together and filed a lawsuit and they got it. So Sabine and and the others came back, and I'm still in touch with her now, which is which is really, really lovely. But for example, this is a side, but it's kind of funny. When I work five scenes on Catch Me If You Can, my friend said, Tanya, maybe they'll make you a Pan Am flight attendant. I'm like, You guys, they told you to to hit the road when you were 26, but I'm in my 50s now, you know.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Well, we'll come back to Catch Me If You Can. Gotcha. And, you know, your adventures are not only international, but you've been an extra in a few movies. But we'll come back to that. Let's talk about your Pan Am experience.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

Oh, geez. Well, I mean, I just love the way the whole thing flowed. I was, as you know, I was hired by Al Topping. Uh, when he hired me on the spot, uh, I didn't know that he was very well known, that he had been the station manager. Is Saigon was falling and organized the very last flight out of Vietnam. Amazing. Uh, I would have been even twice as nervous if I had known that. And I was just so excited from the minute I said, I was so so timid. I was like, well, Mr. Topping, how will I know if I've been hired? And he said, What would you say if we're gonna if I said we're gonna fly you down to Miami on Sunday? And it was like, it was like I was on the launch pad to my future. You you would have thought I'd never been out of my hometown. Tom, I got so excited and I didn't make any sense for about two days. I'm just talking to everybody and so excited about it and thrilled. Uh, but you know, it was so amazing because their their training was so good. And I, even though I didn't have any previous airline experience, I could tell right off the bat how different it was. For example, the uh survival manual had evacuation in uh you know 10 languages. They had Dr. Pator there, who would uh who spoke multiple languages, had written language books, and he so you had to study 400 airline-related words. So you you could speak a language fluently, but if you didn't know uh Maltormentoso or Bulkhead or something like that, you know, you had to study all that, yeah, you know, overhead compartments, all that sort of thing. So he, Dr. Pitor would test you. And and if you didn't pass, you so you had to take the written part, 400 words, and also how to pronounce all the wines in Pan Am Cellar. And if you didn't uh pass, uh then you got knocked off the payroll for a month and had to go home and study until you did. So I was stressed out. I'm like, I haven't studied Spanish since high school, you know.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

Yeah, wow. Well, that that's cutthroat. And and he was a professor, this gentleman.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

Dr. Joseph uh Pator, yes. And uh also the thing about the dignitaries, there was a section in our manual that told you exactly, you know, if they're from the Vatican, you you'd run to your manual, because you know, in those days like the thick, thick book, and you go to the back. Okay, how how do you how do you uh address somebody, the prime minister or uh an ambassador, your excellency, your eminence, you know, how do you address them? And then there was that uh wonderful man, Sho Okawa at Kennedy, because I was always based at Kennedy, and he used to come down when it became a person, you know, he would come down the jetway and I'd say, Okay, who am I getting? You know, because he was gonna tell you, okay, so-and-so's coming, you know, and give you like a little bit of background if you didn't know who it was, so-and-so actress or so-and-so, and like you said, I had them from the Vatican as well, sometimes. And Mother's uh ladies, all that Yens also flew on Pen in.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Tell us a little bit about your uh famous guests and dignitaries.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

Well, one time uh I was just gonna fly on the uh A310 from uh New York down to Mexico City, and I saw that Princess Christina, uh Juan Carlos Carlos' daughter, was in economy. So I thought there had been a terrible mistake. And I'm not at all fluent in Spanish, so I grabbed my flight attendant who's a fluent speaker, and I said, There's been a bad mistake. We've got to go back and talk to Princess Christina and tell her that we have a place for her in first class. And uh we went back and we were so apologetic, everything. And she just laughed, she was so sweet. I was very impressed. And she said, you know, she said, I'm fine back here. I'm with my friends, you know, it's fine. Thank thanks for asking. I thought, all right, that's class. You know, I I really like that, really class.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

Yeah, yeah. Any other guests that uh come to mind?

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Well, I had Louis Mall on one time, the director, and it's got a little bit annoying, but anyway, uh, so we had put the linens down for breakfast. And I so I'm standing because again, you know, I'm in A zone on this on the seven floor. We're going over to Charles de Gaulle, and I hear everything, eh, and I'm thinking, oh no, it's about we're about two hours out. I'm thinking, we're not going mechanical, are we? And you know what he's doing? We put the linens down and he's shaving, he's shaving his face. I almost didn't know what to say because I was just like, excuse me, you know what I mean. Uh and Robert De Niro was on one time, but my friend Kevin and I were flying. We were going over to Paris for the Paris Air Show because my stepfather had gotten a couple of uh VIP tickets for us. So uh the flight attendant came over and she's fussing over us, but she's not saying anything airline related. So Robert De Niro keeps looking around like, who in the hell are they? You know, Kevin, it's so cute, but it was cute. Did just cute stuff.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

Oh, just amazing. Tell us about your coworkers. Any pan stories you want to share with our listeners?

SPEAKER_00 15:16

I mean, there's always so much because we were always communicating so much because that there would be something new that's going on. Like I read about when the Berlin Walls coming down, and they would come back from a trip and they'd tell you all about it, what to expect, what to do. You know, you could walk at some point then you could walk over into East Berlin. Um, you know, the coup in Moscow. We were waiting to hear more information on that before we flew in. It was really hard to get it. Um Gorby had been in the in the Crimea in his Dhaka on vacation in August of '91, and they had surrounded him, but we didn't know how how much access he had to to radios and everything. So, you know, here's where the CIA comes in. You know, they they help you out, they give you some kind of advanced word. Um, yeah, there were so many, so many you were always waiting to hear whatever the latest was. And and you know, we as you know, we just had an integral part with history. Every time there was something going on, it was it was just remarkable. We we Pan Am had the Civilian Reserve Air Fleet program. So when Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait August 1st, uh 1990, Pan Am was called upon. I mean, almost immediately, because at the time we had 38 uh about about 38747s. And a crowd program at Civilian Reserve Air Fleet is when you will turn all your airplanes over to the military in time of national emergency. And I, if I recall correctly, in 30 hours they could go in and take all the seats out and then move the material in, like you've seen those pictures of the Afghanis coming out of Kabul, just sitting on the floor of a Globemaster or C-17. But in the end, they didn't have to uh convert hardly any of them because they were just flying them on us, you know. So we were just going like a regular passenger, like you say, to Rome.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

Yeah, with troops just as regular passengers, correct?

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Exactly. And with the clips and the belly, I might add. But also, uh, yes, it it was that that at first when they started that, there was a lot of hooplao coming up to the war. The press was saying they didn't know how well uh Saddam Hussein was armed, that the Scud missiles uh might have poisonous gas on their frontem. So anywhere they hit, they would deploy the gas. Um we we were taught by the COs that would have a briefing with us in Afghali to show us how to put on a gas mask because that's not the time. If we if we had landed, for example, in Dahran and uh they had had an alert go off, you know, the siren go off, you can't run to the CEO or somebody and say, Hey, how can I put this on? Especially if you had glasses. You know, you had to practice putting it on. And when we would have those briefings, everybody would start looking very serious because it's like, oh, maybe this isn't, you know, isn't such a great idea. But in the end, I don't think we had any incidences. If we did, I I didn't hear about it.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

Interesting. Um, any other Pan Am stories that uh stand out to you?

SPEAKER_00 18:07

Oh gosh. Well, I had Marine O'Hara on board one time. And oh, she's Pan Am royalty. Yeah, she was delightful and beautiful. I don't know how old she was at the time. All I was doing was uh um LA, New York, and it was wintertime because I remember because they uh the flight flight was rather short anyway. Uh not five hours. Uh she came on board and she was just her aura was beautiful. She was beautiful, she was lovely, she was gracious, and um she just talked to us. She was the sort of person that she was not just gonna talk about herself and oh, you know, she talked, well, she did talk a bit about Charlie, how much she loved him and what it was like. I think they lived in St. Martin, but anyway, one of the Caribbean islands, and uh how she loved him. And the word got out to the pilots. And so we at the time we had, you know, two pilots and and the engineer, and they came down one by one to meet her. And she was the sort of person you she was an empath. I mean, I could tell you, you could say, Oh, I just spoke up with my boyfriend. I'm so upset. I bet she she would almost be crying with you because she had that kind of energy, a very healing kind energy. So she she was just really lovely.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

Interesting, very interesting. Tell us about the end of Pan Am for you in your story.

SPEAKER_00 19:18

Oh, well, it was it was so difficult because you know, of the what an iconic, it's almost an overused word, but what an iconic airline it was for all of us. Uh, I mean, you know, a lot of people don't know this, but you know it. Uh, Charles Lindbergh chartered the North American uh routes. They were first uh across the Atlantic, first across the Pacific, first around the world, eastward, first around the world, going west. And then they had the uh Air Force One, yeah, you know, they didn't call it that, I think they called it the chosen instrument at the time. And uh during, I mean, like at the end of World War II, they were using Roosevelt was was using, you know, it was it was absolutely amazing. And I don't know if you know this or not, but Jeff Kremler once said it was something like 50,000 reservations for the first flight to the moon. So that is that kind of gives you in a nutshell the the kind of aura that that Pan Am had that they they really felt people were wanted to reserve because they wanted to be the first on the moon. So we knew that we were running out of money and it it was very, very hard. It was it was difficult to make the announcements like we are, you know, thank you for flying Pan Am when you know I'm trying to keep my voice not you know steely and not like you know, like I'm gonna cry in two seconds. Yeah, we heard about the like you said, January of '91, they they announced that we were chapter 11. So then we were hoping for uh some kind of uh refuge, like for example, maybe hook up with a hotel chain or some kind of investor money. And see, I'm the sort of person when something happens, I try to do something to mitigate it. So when the date was set for Delta to uh meet with the Pan Am people to finance Pan Am 2, because I wasn't hired uh with for Delta. And anyway, it so what happened was then I wrote, it was Cornelius Blackshire, I can remember his name to this day. He was a judge in New York, and he was the one who was going to preside over the case to make the decision about Delta if they were gonna finance Pan Am 2. But they pulled out of the deal, probably uh something that they were discussing on on the golf course, you know, like, but we suffer. Uh I sent it, I sent it uh registered to him, and that was it. So, but I was on a White House press charter the day we went bankrupt. And it it it's a it was December 3rd. It wasn't December 4th, it was December 3rd. Uh I lived in Falls Church, Virginia, so I would just get permission from Pan Am to drive over to Andrews Air Force Base and just park my little Chevette there and then go get on the Pan Am plane and then fly alongside Air Force One. So we took uh President uh Bush Sr. down to the Tropicana plant. I believe it was, I believe it was in Sarasota. And uh then, you know, it's so cool. You get to go over and you you go talk to Colonel Danny Barr, who I'd met before. Because that was like about the fifth one that I had done. And uh you just walk around, you talk to all the, they're all Air Force uh flight attendants, and they're absolutely they're just wonderful. I mean, the consummate diplomats, and you have to be because the nature of the people that you get on board, you know. Um, I actually the first time I was on Air Force One, I went home because you know you weren't allowed any pictures on board. No, no, no, no. Whether you're a guest or what, you know, no, no, no. So what I did is I went home that night and drew in my diary exactly as best as I could remember the configuration. But anyway, it's it's really it's a very, very impressive airplane. It's gorgeous. And and and Colonel Danny Barr showed me every part of it, including all the electronics upstairs, you know, in the upper deck, you know, in the cockpit. If you've seen the way the electronics look on tail 26,000, which is a Boeing 707, and tail 27, that 26 and 27,000. Kennedy was on one the day he was assassinated. You can see the difference. It's it's just remarkable. So we had a little 727. We were down in Sarasota, and the president gets off and waves at everybody and goes downtown. Then he gets back on uh Air Force One, and then we flew to Meridian Air Base. And during that time, uh Sununu, his uh chief of staff, had given him his resignation letter. So for my press, because I'm on the um the press can do both. You can go one way on Air Force One and the other one uh, you know, on the commercial aircraft. Uh, you know, I had Charles Bierbauer uh from CNN, I had uh Ann Compton, I had, you know, from Agence France Fresse, another one, Voice of America. They were all on board. So now they're really excited, they can't wait to get to Meridian so that they can go down and file that as their story. That's December 3rd, 1991 for the night. So uh they went down and I walked over towards Air Force One, and somebody who was senior to me said, Tanya, where are you going? And I said, I'm I'm going over to chat with them. And she said, Well, you've been on the other one. They're in they're identical inside and out. And I said, I know. I said, but you never know when the party's gonna be over. And that was about 11 in the morning and about, well, one o'clock or something. I went back to the 727 and our pilot had been listening to the radio, and he came out and he was absolutely ashen. He said, That that's it for us. That you know, that that that's it. That's the end. And we we flew back to uh Andrew's and it was winter time, it was December 3rd, and I'm driving my little chival. I'm surprised it didn't run off the road. I'm crying so hard. I can't see. I mean, we knew it was coming, but it still it was just devastating. I mean, but on the upside, we all stayed in touch with each other and we all supported each other, and that really, really, really helped. That meant a lot. But it's a big dichotomy to be chatting with the you know, the chief pilot for the the president on Air Force One one day and you're in the unemployment line the next. That that's that's kind of a weird feeling, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 24:52

Yeah, I did not realize that Pan Am did a White House press charter the day before it completely ceased operations. That that's fascinating. That's new to me. So so there you go, listeners. I I could learn new things all the time on this program.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

It's it's a pretty complex business, wouldn't you say?

SPEAKER_01 25:12

Yes. But back to your point about the Pan Ammers uh sticking together and keeping in touch. This company goes out of business. Most of everyone lost their pensions. A lot of people lost their job if they didn't go to Delta, but they're still so loyal to each other, and they're so loyal to this company that uh no longer exists, and that's just so fascinating. I don't I can't think of one other company that has that kind of loyalty. Maybe TWA would be a close second, but I can't think of anything else, you know, like Packard Automobile. I don't think those people, you know, or Kodak. Uh, but I I don't I can't think of another company that has their employees that that the company's no longer around and their employees are still so loyal to each other and to the company.

SPEAKER_00 26:05

Absolutely. I could I'm I'm glad you feel that way because that's exactly my impression as well. We're thick as thieves, and and all you you know, all you have to do is meet somebody anywhere in the world and say, I'm former Pan Am. And you know, they say I am too. It's like finding a long-lost cousin. It doesn't matter what they did for a living. You know, the the camaraderie is is just remarkable. And it wasn't long after, so Pan M went bankrupt in uh December 91. It wasn't long before we started regrouping. So in spring of 92, um, Mary Lou Ruddy and some others, uh, she was a senior person. Absolutely, I loved her. She was wonderful. She's gone now, unfortunately. Uh, she with some other uh seniors had organized uh a lobbying group called Wings on Washington. So I joined that and we we would go up on Capitol Hill. We were getting signatures from people in different places for jobs with assets. So it was too late for us, so we know that, Tom. But you know, it it was going to help future flight attendants when their company sells their assets, like what happened to us, that they'll go, they can interview, but you know, they they'll go with them, they won't just be kicked to the curb, like out of a job, like you say, you know. And so we had um uh Senator uh Bill Nelson was on board and uh from Florida, Bob Graham, Senator Bob Graham, uh Reverend Jesse Jackson was on board, Senator Edward Kennedy was on board, and my girlfriend Susie said, Tanya, I because we were all putting our uniforms on, and and some TWA people came and also some Eastern Airlines people came. And um my girlfriend Susie said, Tanya, you know you're gonna be crying. I said, Yes, I know, but it comes with the territory. And we went and, you know, we really tried hard to get the legislation passed. But as you know, it it takes a lot of doing. But then World Wings also got very involved because they did things with care, you know, the the NGO care. And uh it was that's amazing too, because so now we were volunteering for international human rights, and that would include uh Education for All Act, uh, Child Marriage Act, and then um, you know, giving subsidies to farmers to teach them, go in, go into the countries and teach them about their flooding, like in in Bangladesh, it keeps flooding over and over and over again, and you teach them about it to empower them, you know. And so that that was very, very uh very rewarding. And it's a wonderful way to network out because you're all on the same mission. So you if you meet other people, you're you bond with them immediately because you you've got the same ideals. And then in '93, Ganila, I was at American by then. I hated it because that was that domestic stuff. You know, sorry, but anyway. And Ganilla Cropford calls me from Miami and she says, Tanya, I've got some great news. Now we're on a five-day strike, you know. And of course, I'm at home with a pilot, an American Airlines pilot that I've rented to. And I, and I uh I she said, I've got some really good news. I said, Girl, is it men or is it money? And she said, Well, it's a it's an opportunity. I said, I said, okay, what is it? She said the first it was uh Nigerian Hodge. It was the Nigerian Hodge. That was May, uh sorry, March of 1993. And I called uh a pan-and friend of mine, uh Cicero Fain, and had got him on board. And we took two seven 747s over to Nigeria, and uh we worked for somebody called Chief Kabo, a wet lease, you know, when you when you bring the the mechanics, the ground people, and everybody. And uh boy, that was really something. And Cicero Cicero and I trained uh the Nigerian flight attendants, so we're gonna have mixed crews, four Americans and 10 Nigerians on each plane. It was really remarkable, but we enjoyed it because we just it was that Pan Am spirit on again. The mechanics were former Pan Am. A lot of them were uh from the Philippines, you know, that the pilots were all former Pan Am. That was so remarkable. So then I'm sorry I got a little bit out of sync. It was fall of '93 when we were on strike for the American and Gunilla calls, and same same gal that got a setup for the Nigerian Hotch and said, Um, yes, we have this thing in Tajikistent. They'll they'll they'll fly you over, they'll commercial you over. They want uh just that one airplane I told you about earlier, the the snow leopard, 747 SP. They want you to train the Tajikis in uh how to do a Pan M service. And they'll pay $2,500 for three weeks. But now our strike was over. So I did something really naughty. I shouldn't even say this. I went to urgent care, told them my back was killing me, had them write it, write me a note, and I was off. I was off on my adventure. So I went over and that that's how I worked the uh with everybody, Vince Rossi and everybody uh worked the uh the Pan M inaugural, well, the Tajik inaugural flight from London to uh to Ducham Bay, and then they had that whole ceremony I mentioned earlier, and then they give they give the pilots these special uh coats and stuff, and they take them inside and they want to shoot vodka. And the pilot's like, no, no, no, we got to go on to Karachi, and then we got to go back to London. They said, What difference does that make? It was like really amazing. And then um, after that, I went to Saudi Arabia. So again, I took a leave, uh, a legit leave uh of absence from America and went over to Saudi Arabia to do subservice for Saudi and Jeddah. And we had quite a lot of pan Ammers over there again, pilots and you know, all that. They just can't get enough. And then '96 did the Air India Hodge out of Bombay, Calcutta, and uh New Delhi. That's how I went to uh, as you know, Mother Teresa's house and just took my chances and she happened to be there. And I couldn't believe it was just a remarkable serendipity. And then we went uh then in 97 we went back to Saudi Arabia for eight months. I mean, we had a compound. We're we're making our moonshine, we're making our vino, you know, we're we're just living in a compound. The only things you got to put your bye on when you go out, and uh everybody, I mean, they all remember it because it's just such an extraordinary time. By then we had some Eastern people working with us as well, which was which is really cool.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

So yeah, that's fascinating. So the 90s, you have former Pan Am people, former Eastern people, and there was like this community uh internationally uh still flying together.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

Exactly, exactly. And it it's it's good because you just you just regroup, just just like if you and I were in an office situation and the boss comes in and fires everybody. Well, what do we do? If we like each other, we're gonna you know network and find out what we've got, you know, and make something up.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

Uh let's go back to your mother Teresa. Uh how tell us about that story.

SPEAKER_00 32:31

Well, excuse me, the uh the newspaper, she was very close to the Pope. And the newspaper in uh Calcutta every day would say whatever her schedule was. And so for that particular day, we were staying in the Imperial Hotel, which is one of the few uh very nice hotels. But I mean, it's so rough. The minute you step outside, it's like, wow, yeah, the smell and everything, it's just it's really rough. It's it's rougher than Bombay and and New Delhi. It's really, it's really difficult. So I I said to um Sammy Abrahani, he was our chief pilot. I said, I'm gonna go see Mother Teresa. And he said, but you know, she's in Rome. I said, Yeah, Sammy, I know, but I just have this feeling, I just want to go see her, you know? And he said, Okay, we're gonna have a yeah, my tie afternoon and barbecue and all that. I said, All right. So I go, and then you know, Tom, you know how people are when they're around somebody famous, they have this because they don't want to be too loud because that's embarrassing. But if they're too quiet, you can't hear what they're saying. So I went over and I said, They're in the foyer. I said, You guys, what's going on? And they said, uh, Mother Teresa cancer canceled her trip to Rome. She'll be out in about 20 minutes. And I just went, I thought in my mind, jackpot, I couldn't believe it. And I'm not even Catholic, I'm I'm Episcopalian. But anyway, so I went upstairs and I'm just waiting. And Tom, on purpose, okay, so upstairs, it's like a square balcony, and we can see her on like one side. She's just standing there at the screen, but we don't know quite yet if she's coming out yet or not. I purposely stood at the back because once she emerged, I wanted to see how everybody reacted. And I'm hearing all the language. I'm I'm hearing Tagallo, I'm hearing German, I'm hearing Italiano, I'm hearing all the language, and I'm watching how every each person reacts when she put her hands on their head, you know. So I knew that she had broken her collarbone about the month before or something like that, but I didn't know how much English she spoke. So when she got to me, you know, she was four or nine. And uh I knew because I had seen her standing in a wonderful picture with uh Princess Diana, famous picture. And Diana was like me, like 5'10, and Mother Teresa was four or nine. So I knew she was very petite. So when she walked towards me, I I said, I said, I patted my collarbone and I said, How are how are you doing? And she said, Praise be to God, I'm fine. And and I I could see that she she wasn't feeling well. I found out later she had congestive congestive heart failure, pretty bad arthritis, and also in the collarbone, and then malaria. So she she was dealing with yeah, right. So then she motions for me to to you know put my head down and she she put her both her hands on my head. And uh when she did that, it was like I could feel a waterfall from heaven coming straight through her and straight down through my body. And in that instant, I knew that I I would have that feeling anytime I wanted to bring it about again for the rest of my life. When I'm on my deathbed, I'll probably just be thinking about all the highlights of my life. Obviously, that's one. But she but she was absolutely remarkable. I I everybody had a different reaction to the way some people kind of gasped, some people just fell into prayer. And that that's when um Sister Anne Terese said to me, You sound American. And she said, I was in DC for five years, and then I realized that we'd had a phone conversation. And then she uh, yeah, it was that was that was fabulous. And so she said, Well, let me get a picture of you with mother. She she won't mind. And Mother Teresa had given me a fistful of metals that have been blessed from her, sorry. And I came back to the States and I gave them, I gave them away to friends of mine that were ill to help help them heal and everything. But she uh she her her presence was amazing. When I saw her, I started thinking about like what if I had seen Gandhi in person, also very, very small in stature, very thin, wiry, you know, and and you wonder this you don't you never know who's doing God's work. That that's that's the thing. But how Pan Ann plays in this too is also uh you may know I went to her leper shelter out uh outside of Calcutta, and the lepers there make the make the soris. I don't know if you know that or not, the blue and white. And I like that it gives them satisfaction, like I'm I'm doing something. And the uh yeah, they're just uh you know blue and white, and then you know, they they grow their own vegetables. So essentially they're they're eating organically. And the uh, and then I also went to her uh uh sister Antries also took me to two of their orphanages, which is really something. It was really some experience.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

So tell us more about your time in the 1990s, and then we can talk about your time in Hollywood.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

Well, well, um actually in the early 1990s, a Pan Am passenger that I had met who was working at 20th Century Fox, but as a male secretary, uh he he got he invited me twice to to the Emmys. That's when Fox, Fox was hosting it because they took turns. You probably know that the different networks take turns. And so that that was a lot of fun. That uh I went up to speak with Steven Spielberg and all that sort of thing. But in after after we did the the second year in Saudi Arabia, which was 97, uh, we came back in '98 and we flew for uh Coletta. We flew uh the United States Air Force between Yakota Air Base Japan and Elmendorf in uh in Alaska, and we and we went back and forth. And then it was after that we were we were trying to regroup and go to the Hodge and do it for Indonesia, which I would have loved. Everybody was waiting for that, but it fell through. And then that's when I said, I'm I'm gonna go to Hollywood. So I came out and I stayed with Dan, my friend from Fox, and uh I got my vouchers pretty pretty quickly, actually. I was very lucky because you know it's kind of like flying. You play by the rules of the game, somebody's always watching you. You you don't know who the producer is and who you know I'm saying. And they're watching you when you when you play by the rules of the game and you're user-friendly and you you show up in your own nice wardrobe and let them pick from, you know, they like you and they get to know you. And then that that's when things take off. So I was able to join SAG pretty early. And uh that that it's been a fun experience. I really miss it actually, but I can't do it with my present schedule.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

So, what movies have you been in?

SPEAKER_00 38:52

Uh, War of the Worlds. Um, I was I was a regular on West Wing. They would make me like uh Secret Service, uh, they made me a uh Air Force captain one time, they made me a full bird colonel, uh, army colonel. Sat right next to Martin Sheen, and I was thinking in the situation room, and I was thinking Tom, I think, oh no, oh no. I'm too low ranking. You have to be like oh, at least a one-star chic, you know. And they said, Tanya, can you step out? And then that was cool, but it was a fabulous set to work on. Uh because it was so well. That's so fun. And Aaron Sorkin is just out of this world. I mean, he's so down to earth, he's he's so brilliant. And then I did a little bit of stand-in work. Um, but I wear, yeah. So I did uh War of the Worlds, I did a World Trade Center with um, and Oliver Stone picture-picked the background, and he he picture-picked, he looked at so many photos because he had about 400 of us there, and they they did it in a part of uh Playa del Rey, and they were setting up the scene, for example, when uh the the uh the buildings have been hit and all the all the paper and all the stuff is coming from, you know, all the debris is coming down. He but you know, Oliver Stone is is really a stickler for authenticity. So he flew in about 20 of the FDNY and the uh and the and the NYPD, all right, just flew them in with all their equipment and everything. And then there's a lady, you may remember this if you saw the pictures and stuff. There was a thin, tall um black lady just covered in ash, and she'd been selling flowers close to the World Trade Center.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:29

And she she would she was looking for a friend. I can't remember her friend's name, but it was haunting. And and Oliver Stone said, Bring her here. I want her to be in the film. And then he had her walking along, calling the name in with all the debris coming down. And we did about, I don't know, 10 or 12 takes on that. And the guys were in cherry pickers throwing things down. But every time they would do the sirens, say, okay, pictures up, and we do the sirens, I would I would get turkey skin all over again. And of course, they made us filthy because you know it's unrealistic to have a tie and all that. Work that part and then work the scene where we're sitting in the lobby and we're all in shock. We're sitting on gurneys and stuff, and and we're wounded, and and everybody's running down into the lobby and screaming. And Oliver Stone is shooting it through the uh the glass doors. But he has he has a real eye for detail because he's like, I'm yards away from it. And he comes in and he goes for the guy that's sitting next to me, the background guy, and and he and he redoes, he does his tie. He said, You've lost your tie in the evacuation. You know what I mean? Pretty amazing stuff. Um, and then uh War of the Worlds was that's my favorite Marine story because I I mean I love the military. Um, they're so remarkable. Best passengers in the world. My my favorite, probably military stories so far is that when I worked on a War of the Worlds, so it was up in Canyon Country here in north of LA, and there were gonna be a lot of pirate techniques, and for months they've been telling everybody, okay, don't call the sheriff on these dates because this we're making a movie, right? So for five days in a row, you get to the set at like 1500 and you're gonna be wrapped at 0600. Okay. I get there, and there's a there's a special um tent for uh Tom Cruise, and then you've got and the other uh the the gal that plays his daughter and the guy that plays his son and all that all the actors, all the A-listers, right? And everybody, so when you're a background, you stand in line to get your voucher, and then they they dress you up in their their clothes, all that sort of stuff, and your voucher tells how many hours you worked. I get there and I look, and there are like 15 guys standing there, and I'm like, you guys are for real, aren't you? Because they're standing ramrod straight, uh straight up. And they are from a 29 palms. So what Spielberg did was he got five Abrams M1 tanks, if I can say that fast enough. Uh, and for five nights in a row, he had those five tanks going up the hill, but it's dark too, because they're CGIing in all the the pirate tech design. Because I know you like that stuff. Yeah, you'll and and it would, but and they told us because you know, sometimes it's like kind of like flight attendance, but also with background, you got to run them by it several times because they're not listening, they're chatting about something else. So the first assistant director comes out and you know, he's yelling through the megaphones. Now, you guys, I want you to listen up because we don't want to see anybody running within 50 feet of these tanks because you'll get a suntan, you'll never get over, and you'll get wrapped. Plus, but you had to kind of watch about where you were going because they that's the fastest tank in the world. I think it goes about 55 miles an hour and it digs like these trenches. So I twisted my ankle, but I didn't say a word about it. I'm like, I know they're gonna, you know, send me home. But what was really cool about it was these guys had all come back from, you know, Iraq and and Afghanistan, one or the other, or both, like six months prior. So Spielberg did something that I think is pretty unusual. He gave them free reign. He said, You guys just yell, yell into the radio like you're you're like you're yelling for your CEO. We're we're under attack, we're in attack. And he let them have free reign and they went to town with that. Then because they were doing that for real only six months ago. And I bet you I bet you for the rest of their lives they'll be talking about that because that was such a great opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 44:05

That's awesome. Uh so catch me if you can. 2002, it really reintroduced Pan Am to a whole new generation. Tell us about your time on that picture.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

Uh it was a blast. So um to start at the beginning, uh, we got we got picture picked as well. And Spielberg just loved doing that film. So what happened was a couple of weeks before uh filming, you would go down to somewhere in uh Culver City, a big warehouse, and there's this remarkable lady called Mary Zorfrez, who had done the costuming on The Man Who Wasn't There and Oh, Brother, we're out the Where Art Thou. And I worked on both those films as well. And that those were set in the the 30s and 40s. And so Spielberg had said to somebody, Who did the costuming on the Cohen Brothers films? And they said Mary Zorfrez. So he brought her on board for Catch Me If You Can't. And let me tell you, sister is so smart. I would I would love to I would love to um interview her for my podcast whenever it gets going because she's amazing. She looked at me, and it was a few years later, and she said exactly what she addressed me in from head to toe, the hat, everything for the Cohen Brothers film, right? So what she did was she they tom, everything belonged to them except our underpants. I we had we kept our underpants. It didn't matter if you were whip it thin. And I started teasing her about uh, you know, being fashion police, like we used to say at Pan Am. And I told her, I said, you know, Mary, if they didn't, if a supervisor didn't like you, they'd come over, even if you were super thin and like, you know, and and snap your girdle and write you up if if you didn't have a girdle on. And she just loved it because this is her whole gig, you know, how you know, uh. And so she she had to give me, she picked out the bullet bra on the whole thing. And then she pinches me between, between like my my my shoulder. Like, well, you that she said, Tony, is that pooch? It's like between your boob and your armpit. And and I, is that uh pooch or is that boob? And I said, I think that's pooch. And we were off to the races, you know, because she's just she's just absolutely marvelous. She she'll be in an 18-wheeler, and you'll stand up outside and she'll look at you, and a man or woman, doesn't matter, and she'll say, Okay, try this on. She'll hand you and hang her the whole thing, and it fits you like a glove. You can't even imagine. Oh, yeah, I worked on Aaron Brokovich too. Anyway, so we go to set, and the beautiful thing about the set is uh they went to great lengths to make sure that we stayed in character like 1965. Okay, that's that's our mentality. So anytime they say, okay, you guys have a few minutes break, like to, you know, do a little something, but but don't get too far away. You'd hear the gals that go in the bathroom, they'd go, they're they're they're tearing, tearing those girdles off, you know. And then wardrobe would come around round to make sure you still had it on. But we had the garter belts and the and those shoes that kill your feet, the real pointy ones. And even the earrings were hurting my ears. I it was just unreal. But uh, they would keep you in character because they would play Fly Me to the Moon and all this stuff. And it was it was uh filmed at uh Ontario Airport, standing in from Miami. And it was just it was just so much fun. Like I sent you that picture of me, the guy, you know, he's he's never even been in the airline business. You know, they say, okay, you're gonna be you're gonna be a pilot. Uh and then I would I was there in the scene, I was standing behind. They have um sometimes on outside, they have these tracks. So Spielberg and the guy's called Video Village, and they're moving along these tracks like from left to right. And it's that scene where uh this kid pulls up and and uh uh your buddy Frank, who you've interviewed, uh had made a joke, and he has this chauffeur that says Frank Abingill, and you know, Tom Hanks is all excited because he thinks I finally got him, finally got him. And you know, Spielberg only did about seven takes on that, and then he just burst out laughing. He he just loved it. He thought he was just so cute. And I'm standing behind and just watching, just very quietly, of course, you know, uh just watching this whole thing. And then there's the scene where um where Tom Hanks comes running in, you know, a lead FBI guy with all the guys behind him, and and I'm standing there, and you know, you can kind of see me looking, and they've teased my hair up. Oh my gosh, I I couldn't get the rat rats nest out for a couple of days, which is uh crazy stuff. But but it's just so genuine. I mean, they're they're looking for authenticity. That's the beauty of particularly uh period pieces, you know. And then um, but the scene where you can really see me, we spent one day in that prison. That's the scene, as you know, where Tom Hanks comes in and the FBI has decided they'd really like to uh hire Leo because he really Leonardo DiCaprio, because he really knows what's going on, and that's when he offers him a job. And then you can see me behind uh right behind uh Leo's shoulder in the other room, wearing a ugly brown dress because I'm down and out. I'm here to visit my new convict husband. And they they slapped one of that girl's that flip hairdo thing on me. Uh, but it but it was just so so much fun. But that day, that that that prison is creepy. There uh you have an open bathroom, and you know, I did if I go number two, well, too bad, you can see everything. They people they had marked the you know how many days I've been here, blah, blah, blah. There were dead birds everywhere. There, uh, what was the other thing? It was just awful. But Spielberg made up for it because that day, each person working on the set, even us, they call us props with appetites when they think we're not listening. We had T-bone steaks and lobster tail for lunch. And I think that's Spielberg's way of saying, Thanks for being flexible in this creepy prison, because it was creepy.

SPEAKER_01 49:32

Wow. I don't know how I could be an extra in Hollywood because I would I would be 300 pounds.

unknown 49:40

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 49:42

Well, that yeah, they're known for it. Usually you have pretty damn good food on the set, you know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's a big deal, but you you want people to be satisfied and ready to work and and like into character, even though we're just background, just in into character.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

Sure. And to our listeners, Tanya's book is called On Butterfly's Wings, an anthology of international escapades. And there is a link in the episode description to purchase this book. Tanya. So you have met some very interesting people. You've done some very interesting things. Hollywood extra, Pan Am International Flight Attendant, but you've also met some very interesting people. Nelson Mandela, the Dalai Lama, uh Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, uh, you saw the space shuttle Atlantis launching. What story would you like to share with our listeners that was really inspirational for you, especially in these crazy times we live in? We need a good inspirational story from Tanya Anderson.

SPEAKER_00 50:53

Well, it it's tough. It's tough because it's like saying which friend do you love the most? You know, when you love something different about each one. But I'll say this when I met Nelson Mandela, it was remarkable. And it just happened by chance. I happened to know a congressman, Congressman Jerry Kletzka from Wisconsin, who's also gone now. Uh, he he was in the Ways and Means Committee. So I was watching TV and they said Nelson Mandela is in New York and he's gonna, he's coming to DC and on Tuesday, I think, he's gonna get the Congressional Gold Medal. He's gonna be awarded the Congressional Gold Medal from President Bill Clinton, and he's the first African to ever get it. And it is solid gold. So I thought, oh my God, Nelson Mandela. Of course, I was in DC, you know. So I called Jerry and I said, Jerry, I the congressman, I said, I hope this isn't too much to ask, but is there any chance you you could get me just one invite to see uh Nelson Mandela? And he said, Tanya, you're in luck because Bonnie and I are going to be out of town. You have two invites. Oh wow. I know I was so excited. So I called all the Africans I knew, I knew the Nigerians, and uh, I mean, I know several, I quite a few. I called Jerry, and nobody could make it because it was such such short notice. So anyway, I I went into the uh I went into the office, his his office, and got two of the tickets. And then, and then one of the uh one of the staff said, Are you gonna use both of those tickets? I'm like, no, you can have one back and they're all excited. So I wore uh emerald green uh silk suit. And the reason emerald green is it it's the color of healing. It's not only the color of money, it's it's also the color of healing. And I I think I I know I uh Nelson Mandela was a great healer. He he really did so much to bring South Africa together and then and then ran for president, as you know. So I got there early and I went and sat towards the back and I looked at the program and it said absolutely no flash photography. And I was thinking, oh my God, my life is ruined because that to me is your proof that that you know you're not exaggerating. This is this is what was going on. But then, so anyway, they came in and uh Danny Glover came in, who I was gonna meet, you know, years later. Bono came in. I flew you too for their entire North American tour. Uh, he came in, but I was gonna meet him later. Uh, all these people, they they they all came in. I'm I'm looking because I know different Congress people and stuff like that, because they've been going on the hill for a long time. And everybody was there. And Nelson Mandela was a newlywed, and they had only been married about four months, and he would he was absolutely radiant. So I sat down, I'm waiting for him to come in, and I had an out-of-body experience. Because it's it's in the Capitol Rotunda. That's where um JFK Lane State when he was assassinated. So it's circular, and and it you can really feel the power in there. And and I I actually went up at out of my body and look back down. I'm like, wow, I'm really here, and this is really remarkable. Because my father, oh, who passed when I was 14, always wanted me to be involved in politics and current events and that sort of thing. So um he spoke about it. It was very cute. They they they they congratulated him, of course. Uh what Senator Strong Thurmond, who at the time was about 98 years old. And he had said awful things about Mandela, only about seven years before that. And then he stood up, he'd fallen asleep, but you can't blame him because he's he's so older, you know. Uh, he stood up and and he and he shook his hand, and it was very genuine. It didn't look like staged at all. Newt Gingrich was there. I mean, all these people, it was just amazing. So um Nelson Mandela uh gave his speech, but he was so grateful. He was, I can't see auras, but boy, I can feel him. He was absolutely radiant. And um, it was so exciting. He he he held up the medal, then he handed it over to Maxine Waters, who's still a Congress lady uh from LA to uh to this day uh for safekeeping. And then uh and then it went, it was over. And uh then I saw the stiff suits, but that's what I call the Secret Service, like your your buddies. The stiff suits started taking pictures because I saw flashes going on. I thought, if they can do it, I can do it too. So I stuck it, sucked in my stomach, and I did the crab dance all the way up to the dais, and I got right underneath there and and I said, Madiba, Madiba, God bless you, Madiba. I'm so happy for you. Congratulations. And he leaned down and he shook my hand. It was surreal, absolutely like like the Mother Teresa experience, surreal. And then somebody behind me was uh, you know, Zoksa, his his native language, it has a lot of clicking sounds like and somebody was clicking behind me. And of course, that took his attention away because now there's somebody from his very own tribe, you know. And so he's looking beyond them. But but it was fine because I was able to say what I wanted, and then I took that picture that's on on the cover of my book. So it was it was a remarkable day. That's great.

SPEAKER_01 55:36

Anything you'd like to add as we are coming to the end of our conversation?

SPEAKER_00 55:42

Well, I'd like to talk just a little bit, if you don't mind, about how things come full circle. Sure. So, for example, Al Topping hired me at Pan Am, and uh I've been in touch with him all these years, which I I love. I think that's tremendous. And uh, so when I went to the Emmys, we went to the governor's ball after the Emmys. Uh I don't know how it is now, but this was in Pasadena in the early 90s. And James Old Jones is down there, he's about two tables over having dinner. And I thought, oh wow, you know, I don't like to interrupt people, but I would, and he had he had two Emmys on his table and he's just eating dessert. So I said to my my friend Dan, I said, um, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go to the ladies' room. And uh if I if I come out and he's gone, then then he's gone. But I don't want to interrupt his dessert because I just wanted to say to him, you know, you, you know, you portrayed Al Topping in the last flight out, and he hired me at Panam. I was dying to say it, but I came out and he was gone. So, you know, you you win some and you lose some. But um the 82nd Airborne, I would just like to say something about them, which is so, so cool. Uh, I brought them back from the first school for April 1st, uh, 1991. It was the day I'll never forget because they were just exuberant, they were so excited. In 2021, I was in Mainz, and we we're waiting for our plane to come from the Middle East, but we don't know who's gonna be on it or anything like that. We we were delayed 11 days, okay? I get on the airplane 747, and we're gonna take them back to the states. Get on the airplane, and we have the weapons guards. So the guys are off inside the terminal doing things. We have the weapon guard weapons guards on board, and I see the AA, the all-American patch, and it's like, gentlemen, are you are you idiots like an airborne? And they say, Yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am. I said, I brought you guys back from the first Gulf War. I said, I can tell you the date, even April 1st, 1991. And I said, and now I'm taking you home again. And you've you've been in Kabul, you've been in Qatar, and now we're in Germany. I'm gonna take you home again, you know, and and so this wonderful. So we took off, and this wonderful young man came along, and he he's uh on underneath his uh cami t-shirt, you know, and he's playing with uh crucifix, but I see what it is, and he said, Tanya, why why did I have to the trip, my first trip out of the United States be to Kabul? And he told me some of what had happened. They were taking turns with the Marines that that got killed, you know, they were gonna be next up for the next shift. And he said, Why did it have to be Kabul? And why couldn't it be Rome? And I said, Honey, I will pray that one day you get to Rome because you deserve that. So that's my full circle story.

SPEAKER_01 58:16

That's great. Uh, again to our listeners, uh, Tanya's book is called On Butterfly's Wings, and you can purchase it through a link in the episode description. One of the things I want to say, you know, I've read your book and it it's fascinating. There's not a lot you have not done. Um but I the biggest take takeaway for me from you, Tanya, is the worst that could happen is someone will say no.

SPEAKER_00 58:47

Thank you, thank you, good, good, good. Because I want it to be inspiring like that.

SPEAKER_01 58:50

Yeah, like you know, why not try? So if you you have you know a favorite celebrity or or someone that you're interested in or or whatever, the worst that could happen is they'll say no, right? Exactly. You've talked to all of these people, you've uh uh met a whole bunch of different people, traveled all over the world. You could have come to Mother Teresa's residence and they could have said no, but you tried. So try, and the worst uh they could say is no, and there you have it. So that's what I that was that's my takeaway from your book.

SPEAKER_00 59:26

Thank you. You know what the Brits say, fortune favors the brave.

SPEAKER_01 59:29

There you go. Well, thank you again for coming on the Pan Am podcast, and it has been a great pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 59:35

Oh, thanks a million, Tom. I really, really appreciate it. Take care, thank you so much for your time.

SPEAKER_01 59:40

Thank you. Pan Am was a pioneer in air travel and still stands as one of the most iconic and innovative airlines in aviation history. That legacy lives on at the Pan Am Museum in Garden City, New York, where you can explore the rich history of the aircrafts and individuals at the heart of the company known as the world's most experienced airline. For more information about the Pan Am Museum, check out our website at www.thepan Amuseum.org. You can also find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok. As was once a tagline in one of our commercials, we would greatly appreciate your support to help the Pan Am Museum continue making the going great. You can also support the museum by shopping on our online store for all things Pan Am accessories, apparel, jewelry, books, models, and posters. We want to hear from you. If you have a question for us or want to share your story, our email address is podcast at the Pan Ammuseum.org. As flight crews once said to passengers departing for their destinations around the world, thank you for flying, Pan América.