SPEAKER_09 0:00

In Pakistan, the hijacking of Pan American Flight 73 comes to an end in gunfire and bloodshed. From ABC, this is World News Tonight with Peter Jennings. Good evening. The hijacking of Pan Am Flight 73 is over, but the cost has been very high. Many passengers who were on board the plane are in shock. Many have been wounded in the final orgy of violence. And some passengers, plus two of the hijackers, have been killed. There is still such confusion in Pakistan tonight that no one is absolutely certain how many people are dead and wounded. In the reports from there tonight, the Associated Press is reporting that as many as 16 people have died. The Reuters News Agency is saying seven. It appears to be clear from the overall tenor that there is more than a dozen people who are dead, and we do not know how many are wounded. Some people said a few. Some people at an earlier stage said as many as a hundred. But we do not know at this point, nor does the administration, nor, as best we can tell, do the Pakistanis.

SPEAKER_06 1:02

Forty years ago this September, the world watched those exact images. A Pan Am 747, Clipper Empress of the Sea, with almost 400 passengers and crew on board, grounded on the tarmac and Karachi, Pakistan, at the center of a hijacking that became a standoff that would end in unimaginable tragedy and unimaginable courage. Welcome aboard the Pan Am Podcast, brought to you by the Pan Am Museum Foundation at the Cradle of Aviation Museum in Garden City, Long Island, with generous financial support from Mr. Adam Heron, Chairman and CEO of Pan C Theaters and president of our sister organization, the Pan Am Historical Foundation. I'm your host, Ken Anderson, and this is a special anniversary edition of the Pan Am Podcast, commemorating the 40th anniversary of the tragic hijacking of Pan Am Flight 73 on September 5th, 1986.

SPEAKER_09 2:00

There were almost 400 people on board for those many, many hours. And it was late at night when the end began. Here's ABC's John McKenzie.

SPEAKER_07 2:10

It was 10 o'clock at night in Karachi. The Pan American jets stood parked on the tarmac. Hundreds of heavily armed security forces moved to surround it. Doctors and ambulances waited nearby. Then suddenly, according to eyewitnesses, the hijackers opened fire, shooting passengers indiscriminately. The security forces stormed the plane. The shootout on the plane ended a day-long standoff on the tarmac as Pakistani officials talked to the hijackers. Pan Am Flight 73 originated in Bombay. It stopped in Karachi to refuel and was supposed to go on to Frankfurt and then New York. But here in Karachi, four men dressed in airport security uniforms and armed with automatic weapons and hand grenades stormed the plane as the last passengers were boarding.

SPEAKER_03 2:58

The first bus had already gone, and its passengers had already gone. Our bus went up to the part where we were supposed to embark on the plane, but they closed the doors and we saw an airest test being taken at gunpoint, and we saw the crew who was jumping down.

SPEAKER_07 3:11

Two airport workers were shot. Later they described what they saw. Just after the initial attack, the hijacker shot one passenger, a naturalized American of Indian descent, named Rajish Kumar. He was dumped in the tarmac, carried away on a stretcher, and later died in the hospital. Later, the hijacker said they were sorry about the killing.

SPEAKER_05 4:01

And we saw a crew member jumping out of the plane window. And we saw him catching hold of a rope and uh would jump.

SPEAKER_07 4:10

Alerted by the gunfire, the three-man American flight crew left the cockpit through a hatch and slid down cables to safety. But the gunman demanded another flight crew. Pakistani officials said the gunmen wanted to fly under Cyprus to get several of their comrades released from prison there. They threatened to kill the passengers if they weren't given the pilots.

SPEAKER_02 4:29

You see, it is very important to make sure that they are not nervous. It's very important to make sure that they are calm and they're not and they have trust in you. I believe that we have established that kind of wrap-off.

SPEAKER_07 4:41

The question left tonight is how did the situation suddenly erupt into a bloodbath? And how the hijackers were able to penetrate security at an airport which even Americans said was very safe. Until today, John McKenzie, ABC News.

SPEAKER_06 4:56

Today we're not just remembering what happened on that September day, we're talking to the people who lived it. Joining us today is Madvi Bahaguna, one of the former Pan Am flight attendants aboard Flight 73 that morning. Modvi would go on to spend years teaching flight emergency training at Delta Airlines after living through the real thing. It's worth noting, Madvi references Safarini in her interview. Zayed Safarini was the lead hijacker of the group. Every crew member on that flight experienced that day slightly differently depending on where you were and what you were doing in those first moments. What was your vantage point of the whole situation?

SPEAKER_04 5:33

Hi, thank you for inviting me in.

SPEAKER_06 6:15

Was there a specific moment that day that you still think about all these years later?

SPEAKER_04 6:20

Many, many, many. I think about it, and and of course, initially, when I used to think about it in the first five, seven years, it was pain and anguish and hurt and uh uh and depression and all of those adjectives that go with bad uh feelings. But uh slowly, um maybe because of my personality or maybe because of the way I processed it, um, I I started, I don't know when that process actually started unconsciously to draw strength from that. Every single moment of thought that I got, I never saw a psychiatrist, never took medication, never did therapy after this whole incident. But um it was my own evolution. And I think from there I drew into this process of drawing energy and strength and creating positive attitude from what happened. And I think that has helped me become the wonderful person, if I want to say the person I am today.

SPEAKER_06 7:23

How did that day change the way you thought about your job, if it did at all?

SPEAKER_04 7:28

Yeah, many, many ways. Before that, it was just a training that we went for in Pan Am with wonderful people like the Pan Am flight attendants at that time who were involved in small, big, or any other way uh in from the hiring process to the training process. But you know, when you go for training, you think, okay, this is training, it's not gonna happen to me. This is what we need to know to learn when it happens. Uh, but your whole focus is oh, I'm going to go to a layover, I'm gonna have fun, I'm gonna do shopping, I'm gonna get fashionable stuff. Um, but that day, I without going to so much details, I feel I walked into that airplane as a 21-year-old, carefree spirit, walked out as a 41-year-old and kept growing every day after that. It literally changed everything. Not that it made me fearful of flying because of course I went back to flying. I did end up with Delta. I only retired 10 years ago from Delta. Um, no, it did not create fear, but it just brought a beautiful different perspective, more um respect to the role that you know people take so lightly. And we also, as flight attendants, take so lightly, we don't realize what a great amount of power, sacrifice, and strength it goes in, apart from the physical uh stuff, but really emotionally, only when things like this happen in your life you realize realize the depth of uh what you do and what you draw and who you become eventually.

SPEAKER_06 9:02

You really had not been flying that long when this whole incident started. You uh basically about six months on the job at that point.

SPEAKER_04 9:10

Correct. We we graduated in December from at March. Uh during March, we started getting our lines because uh December was the we I was in the first batch of training that was sent by Pan Am um from Mumbai to uh Miami. So I was in the first batch. We had six batches, so they finished training all the six batches, then they had a graduation ceremony, then they had the transition of the crews, handing over from the New York-based flight attendants to the um Mumbai-based flight attendants. So all this took place. March was when our first line started. Uh, we got our lines to fly in September was what happened. So little.

SPEAKER_06 9:50

I think that's a testament to the training that you got as to how well you performed that that new to the job and under such horrific circumstances as well.

SPEAKER_04 10:00

Absolutely. Combination of the yes, the choices that was made to hire us, the training that was there, and and of course, you know, the personality that we brought onto the airplane or to the situation, actually.

SPEAKER_06 10:16

Well, what would you want a young flight attendant starting out today to understand about the training and not just the procedures, but but the mindset that it takes to be a flight attendant? Because I I think a lot, I think a lot of people just think of flight attendants as the the person that's walking down the aisle and giving you coffee or a cocktail, and there's a lot more to it than that.

SPEAKER_04 10:36

True, true. Absolutely. And that is the big thing. People just flock into this role. And I was doing hiring for Delta before I retired for four years, and you know, Delta had the statistics out there that there are more people that apply to Delta than they apply to Howard. It's more harder to get into Delta as a flight attendant than it is to get into the Howard school. And uh the reason is that people just flock, they want to go for the glamour. That's what they're chasing. They're chasing the travel, they're chasing the beauty of the job or staying in hotels. But I think what they really completely forget is the the process that is involved. And there would be ATMs that's the uh or self-dispensing machines if uh if you know they could do the job. But the job that we are there for is purely for human lives, to to put that, you know, not only for your you know, deliver what Pan Am or Delta has uh their CEOs put out, we uh the face, the flight attendants deliver that. And most importantly, the safety, the eyes, the ears, everything for the company is there. And I think that is one thing that I would tell behoove and tell every flight attendant, aspiring flight attendant, to make sure you're completely well aware. Things like this, we hope never happen to anybody. But things like this happen not every day, but they happen. And your mentality to prepare for this happening, to prepare for this thing should always be at the back of your mind. There is no time to prepare for an emergency in an emergency. There isn't. When you are in an emergency, it's you know, fight or flight mode. But there is something in between that flight and fight mode. That is what you need to think of, especially when you take a job like this, whether you're a pilot, whether you're a flight attendant, and since we're talking about the airline business will contain to those professions, um, that these are things that can happen. And uh at the same time that you cannot uh you cannot predict your um predict your behavior at that time, but you can acknowledge to yourself when you're sitting on that jump seat that things like this may happen and what is going to be my first reaction. So tying it back to the training, that was one thing that they always told us sit on the jump seat in a particular position. Um, all that brought you pretty much like to uh a place where you are now reviewing, reviewing the commands. That's another thing they told us in the training: review your commands, look for your helpers, you know, look for be situationally aware. These things I think, and I have seen that I I ended up having a 32-year career with uh the airline business between Pan Am, Song, and Delta. And uh these are the things that you know flight attendants forget. And I I would say even 30 and 40 year flight attendants forget the situational awareness, the awareness of what really their job is. It's not a dispensing machine, it is more than that. It is the lives of every human being and all the lives that are attached to the human beings that are there or the passengers that are there on the airplane.

SPEAKER_06 13:50

Well, after Flight 73, as you mentioned, you went on to fly for Delta and you became a flight emergency trainer yourself. What made you want to go back into that?

SPEAKER_04 13:59

Uh same, same passion. They're, you know, trying to actually um convey to the people, uh, to the new higher flight attendants that, hey, you know, this is this is what is the crux of the job, you know, not just uh going to wonderful places, not just having wonderful meals, not just having the big paycheck, but this is where it comes from. And maybe, you know, being able to deliver it with a passion. That is the big thing in some it, and I think for those of us that have been in small emergencies or big emergencies, there's no greater delivery um platform than you know, actually being there, practicing it, and then sending that message out to those new people that hey, this is what it is, apart from all the fun. The fun is always there. That's 90% of the job. But there's one iota percentage that you may be called upon and you have to be prepared for it.

SPEAKER_06 14:58

When you were when you were training new flight attendants, did you ever share what happened to you specifically on flight 73? And if you did, how how did you decide how much of that to bring into the classroom?

SPEAKER_04 15:07

So actually, uh, we uh when I was hiring flight attendants, when I did the hiring for Delta for the four years before I retired, we had um we had a segment after the people were hired and before they went into training, um, taking flight. And in that they did, and that whole taking flight was all about me and my they did a video, they would show the video, then I would be introduced, and then my train hiring manager would um would uh question, you know, put like a QA with me as to you know small things and big things that happened. And it used to be like almost a 45-minute session um for the new higher flight attendants. And I swear every time after that, I would get a standing ovation. Just because it would touch them, it would feel them, and it would give such a strong message to everybody. That and that was the whole point. That strong message of what your job is, and that you can come out of anything. It depends on how you're processing it and how you have to prepare your mind mentally. It's like you know, we go to the gym, we exercise for the longevity, and that's what you need to do is that that gym, that exercise of your mind and brain, that these are things that can happen, and these are the challenges. And how will you be? And what will you be at the date? And so, yeah, so that's that's what I did, not during the training itself, but after they were hired, um, we did this taking flight, and um, that's the it it was a wonderful, successful program for Delta.

SPEAKER_06 16:45

Now you've kept in touch with some of the passengers over all these years. How has that helped you deal with and cope with this whole situation? And how do you think that's helped them?

SPEAKER_04 16:54

I think it's been mutual for all of us. It's helped me as much as it's helped them. And um I and in fact, I was with Jay Grantiere, who was one of the passengers uh over the weekend, this past weekend, who was one of the passengers on the hijack, and he was very close to me, coincidentally in the area that I was. He remembered me, his whole family uh is very uh close to me now. Um this exchange of information, this exchange of information um and validation of what thoughts were going on with with them at the time, uh, talking to other not well, not other passengers, talking to other passengers, there were certain things that I thought that's stupid. What did what was I thinking? Thinking like that, or something else that somebody else thought that they were not going to make it, or they were going to make it, or you know, were they going to be killed or were they going to be hurt? Uh these things and and many, many, many details like this was something that comes out so organically in an exchange. It's uh I think it's even better than the couch therapy. It's completely healing. It takes you to a level where you are face to face, you're just there with the person, and and you have no uh inhibitions because you know what you're talking is witness to what has happened. And you're not just talking to somebody who who's probably being sympathetic or uh uh understanding about you. It is more than that, and I think it has helped. And very recently I met another passenger who was on the airplane and I shared some information, it was healing for this passenger and for me too. And every time you meet and you talk, it seems like, okay, I think I'm healed. No, but there is something more you draw from each other. I drew from this last conversation, just like less than a month ago, from a passenger that I met. I drew so much energy from that passenger, and she turned around and told me, My God, Madvi, you're so amazing. You're I said, No, it's mutual because I could not believe what she said, and she could not believe what I said. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 19:01

40 years later, what do you most want people to understand about what happened that day? Not just what was in the headlines, but but what really happened?

SPEAKER_04 19:11

I think lots, that's a very loaded question in different ways. Um I really hope that people don't forget this, not because they should remember me, not because they should remember the names of the people that um lost their lives, but because of the lives that we lost in terms of living, like the person Nirja never ended up becoming anybody in her life, could not become a mother, could not become a sister, could not become uh aunt. She she gave up so much, or you know, anybody else who lost their lives. Um, that a big that was to me the biggest thing. The beautiful thing is some some of us were able to go on and process this positively, but then there were some others' lives that have changed, that have really not been able to cope up with life for many, many years. And um, and the most important thing was each one on that day was a hero, whether you were a passenger, whether you were a crew member, and uh the capacity that you played by standing up, opening the door, or sitting quietly. I think that's what I would love that people would remember Pan American as that one platform uh that we were in, and everybody's heroic heroism that came through and and learn from each other's uh each of these survivors that what they brought up and what how they took away from this. I think I would love for them to remember, you know, the the the not the sacrifice because we were put out there, but the heroic act um heroism of each and every person. I really hope they never forget because this this is not going to happen hopefully ever again. But for what has happened, the value of the lesson is immeasurable and it keeps giving the more you read, the more you understand, the more you communicate and connect. My pleasure.

SPEAKER_06 21:14

How much we appreciate we appreciate that.

SPEAKER_09 21:16

It was the middle of the night when the 747's auxiliary power or APUs basically ran out of energy. The sky was dark, and then the plane got dark. And that's when the panic began. Not long after it ended, we talked to one of the passengers, Daryl Piper of California. At least one of the welcome. You seem very much together at the moment. How did your fellow passengers react to all this? Many others, of course, are not.

SPEAKER_06 23:13

Not just that day, but in the years that followed. You turned their experience into something that's helped other families too. I'd like for you to tell us about that. What do you remember about learning what happened to your father? Where were you and how did you find out?

SPEAKER_01 23:28

Thank you for having me on this podcast, first of all. My parents were on the plane. During the incident, I lost my father, and my mother has sustained shrapnel wounds on Pan M 73. I was in graduate school in University of Washington, Seattle, uh, when this happened. And September 5th, 1986 was a Friday. I know the Thursday evening I had a call. The first time I found out about it was my brother called me from the Dallas area and said there is a Pan Am plane that's been hijacked out of Bombay in Karachi. And we don't know whether our parents are on that flight or not. And so that's how I first found out. And then we'd made some phone calls and realized that uh they were indeed on that flight. People in Bombay on the ground, uh, my family, my aunts and uncles there were not aware that the plane had been hijacked. All they knew was there was something going on, and all the news they were getting was from the US and US channels at that point. Uh so we were, I was on the phone watching TV, uh the incident uh minute by minute, and uh everything going on. I did have uh my uncle in Bombay at that time, it's called Bombay, now it's Mumbai. Uh he was a uh a prominent businessman, had lots of connections in Karachi, and so he gave me a name of a person, very influential person in Karachi, whom I called, and he was able to help. Actually, he was he knew the Pan Am staff on the ground, uh the general manager of Pan Am. And he called the person, gave them my mother and parents' details, and that message actually was used uh consistently and quite significantly throughout the cockpit to control tower negotiation, hostage negotiation. So I was actually able to communicate from my apartment in Seattle all the way into the plane while the hijacking was going on during the 16 hours. I have a copy of the transcript from the cockpit to control tower with the negotiations what is going on, and my mother's name appears over and over and over in that. They were trying to use that as a as a ploy, I guess, to keep calm down Safarini and asking him, is this person or is Mrs. Krishna Swami okay on the flight? She has got some health issues. And so Safarini actually found my mother on the plane, brought her into the first class. Everybody else was huddled in in the middle of the plane and brought her into first class and kept her there almost through the end. So she was okay, but would not release her. But he kept her in the first class section almost through the end of the uh final assault when she came back and found that my dad had uh was was in his last stages there. So that's how I found out. And then my first uh call from Karachi indicated that both my parents were safe. So I was ecstatic. This was Friday evening, uh, Seattle West Coast time, and then uh we were ecstatic, everything was gonna be okay, and they were gonna come down. And the person who who called me did not know the details. So early morning Saturday, my mother called me, and the first thing she said is, Your father's life story has come to an end. Can you come and help with the final last rights? Uh uh because she was still negotiating to try to get the body on the plane to go back to Bam Bombay. And so I flew on Saturday afternoon to Dallas, where my brother was. My sister was in graduate school as well in Austin. So they joined me in Dallas, and the three of us, Pan Am assigned a flight attendant to work to fly with us to Mumbai to make sure that we got there okay. And we flew back there and did the my dad's last rites. And then we found out after the after the ceremony, his last rites were done, the cremation was done. Uh, my mother, we noticed that my mother had some uh uh uh some black spots on her on her ankle and foot. And through the entire trauma, she did not even realize that she had shrapnel in her foot. She was she had gone through the entire thing with uh shrapnel in her feet. And that's when we realized there was there was something there. We immediately took her to the doctor and he took the x-rays, and I still have the x-rays with me actually. And uh we had to go to the go, she had to go into surgery to get the shrapnels out. But they were minor wounds, but they were shrapnel wounds in her ankle, and uh, and we had uh all that taken care of. And then we stayed in Mumbai for about a week or so until she had recovered and then went back to Bangalore where uh my parents lived after they had retired. And so I stayed with her for several months after that, and then brought her back with me to take care of her. And had no and after all these things happened, I had no uh connection with any victims, Pan Am anybody else. It was like uh it was forgotten completely as far as we were concerned until 2004, which is 16 years later.

SPEAKER_06 29:13

Well, you created a support group for passengers and families connected to this hijacking. What inspired you to do that and what's it meant to your families and the others?

SPEAKER_01 29:23

In in May 2004, my sister in in Mumbai saw an article that the lead hijacker Sapirini was going to be sentenced in US federal court and sent me that clipping, newspaper clipping. And I reached out to the US Justice Department, which had a website for victims to connect with the with the prosecutors. And I introduced myself, flew out there to DC and met with them, and then I suggested that there were 20 people killed, and it'd be nice. And I also met with uh at the Safarini hearing, I met with the Pan Am 103 uh victims group leader, uh a gentleman named Bob Monetti. He came and he talked to me at length, and there was this initial phase of wanting to create a memorial for those who were killed on Pan Am 73. So that's how my effort started. And uh shortly after that, to to essentially, so we started tracking down the families of those who were killed to see what we could do in terms of a memorial for them. Uh, but shortly after the sentencing hearing in May 2004, we found out that uh the government of Libya, Gaddafi, was actually behind this hijacking. It was it was not well known at all. It was never never completely investigated. And I found that out. And then we I I had a victims group that was in an uh on an email that would that would uh that we were discussing with, and I brought this up and they said let's take action against Libya. So I talked to the Justice Department prosecutors who suggested that they will they may not do the criminal side of things, but we could take civil action against the perpetrators. And so we engaged a law firm to work with us and initiated the eventually the the suit Patel v Libya, where I found about 170 to 200 of the victims on the plane. It started out with the with trying to create a memorial. That's how my initial effort started out. But after discovering who did this, it ended up being a a uh search for truth and justice and restitution.

SPEAKER_06 31:50

As time's as time has gone on and you've seen other horrific accidents or other horrific events, not accidents, uh Lockerbie 9-11. Um, how is uh how has that changed the way you look at those?

SPEAKER_01 32:04

Changed the way I look at those in terms of how the victims it the one thing I've noticed in talking to I'm very familiar with many of the victims from Lockerbie. And it's it's been what 38 years, it happened in December 88. And even today, it never goes away. This incident never goes away. People never forget it. They're always looking for the still the truth, the the the justice aspect and restitution trying to hold the the perpetrators accountable. Uh even today, there is a as we speak, there is a case against the bomber of Lockerbie that's being prosecuted, or uh the trial is gonna was gonna start last week for uh the bomber of Lockerby and it was rescheduled for next week or a few weeks from now. So I'm in touch with what's going on there because it's very closely connected with what happened with Pan Am 73.

SPEAKER_06 33:05

Yeah, there and that connection has come out between flight between 73 and 103, also that this was uh backed by Libya at the time.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

Yes, that came out because of our research work and and make making it public. There was nothing on any Wikipedia page or anything else with Libya and Pan Am 73 until I put it there, and then it started to spread from there. The first first uh public uh article on Libya being responsible for Pan Am 73 was published in the Sunday Times in March of 2004 by a reporter called a legendary war reporter called John Swain. And John Swain, if you don't know, was the was the person who was depicted in the killing fields who who broke the story on the Cambodian genocide. And he's a British reporter. And I ended up I saw that article and then tracked John Swain down, talked to him, and he confirmed that he had talked to the authorities in Pakistan and got all the detailed information on what they had with regard to the Libyan connection, which was well, well suppressed until May of 2004. And then he wrote the article, we found that, and that's how step by step we started doing all the research. Madhvi Jay Grant here, whom she mentioned, and a couple of others were very actively. There are five of us who took the lead uh with me to follow up on this. And there is a website for Pan Am 103 for the victims, and it's updated on a almost a week daily or weekly basis on what's going on.

SPEAKER_06 34:48

What would you like other families who live through something like this to know? Maybe something, uh maybe something you wish someone had told you 40 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

The the truth behind the hijacking, it never goes away. That search for that. Who did this to our families? Why was it done? How was it carried out, regardless of anything else? And then how do you bring those perpetrators to justice? In our case, uh, when it first happened, we did not know the the general news media were saying this is something relating to the India-Pakistan conflict. This is a result of that. Something happened with India Pakistan. That was in the news that they were suspecting. It was an India-Pakistan thing. After it was done and the hijackers were captured, then it became a it was the Middle East Arab-Israeli conflict that uh where the ANO essentially was uh was behind this, but not neither one of those made sense. If it's an India-Pakistan conflict, why did they attack an American plane? If it's an Arab-Israeli conflict, why do it in South Asia? None of it made sense until 2004 when we found out all the details that Libya essentially took over the planned hijacking of a plane in Karachi and then switched the target from a Saudi airliner to Pen Am 73 and wanted it bombed and provided the uh diplomatic uh cover to get it done. The fifth hijacker was not on the plane, was actually wandering around the airport looking for a flight to Tripoli while this was going on. And this is from the Justice Department record itself, the El Turki. And El Turkey had a diplomatic visa and passport uh to do all this. And when he was captured, he tried to escape by contacting Libyan intelligence chief El Sanussi at that time, and Libya basically disowned them completely, saying that they had nothing to do with us just for deniability. And I actually, in in 2004, five, six, through a journalist, I actually, in this in that same search for truth, I was in contact indirectly with one of the hijackers on the plane who wrote and exchanged three or four letters with me. And I have the handwritten letters where he confesses that he did it at the behest of Libya. He also went public on the newspaper with that, Jamal Rahim. And I have all that information and I shared it with the law enforcement, FBI, the enforcement, all of them to know what how they could. My hope was that they they would they would probably the the people behind it would be prosecuted. Like I said, there's a search for truth, there's a search for justice, and then of course, accountability and restitution that comes later in a civil action.

SPEAKER_06 37:46

Prabhupada, thank you very much. Uh that's just fascinating the amount of information that you have on this, uh, so much that I I was not aware of going on. Flight attendant and fellow Pan Am Museum Foundation board member Wendy Sue Connect was a flight attendant trainer in Bombay. Wendy, you weren't on Flight 73 yourself, but this story is deeply personal to you in a different way. You trained the Indian flight crew in Bombay. Tell us about that connection.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

Well, um, we had like a four-month period of training in um, we started out in London uh overnight where we do service training, and then uh the supervisors went back to Bombay and we would go on with the flight attendants, the new flight attendants who were, I have to say, even before all this happened, we knew how amazing they were. Pan Am, it was a very sought-after job, and Pan Am picked only the best, and we were so lucky to have these wonderful people. But so when we went back to Bombay, we would supervise the flights and we go with them on their training flights, which uh every flight attendant is on probation for six months before they get their gold wings. So I had a made a lot of personal relationships while I was there. So I was going back for a business, and I left on September 4th uh 1986 from Los Angeles. My flight rent Los Angeles, Frankfurt, Frankfurt, Karachi, Karachi, Bombay, got into Bombay and they're waiting to board Flight 73 with a crew that I had trained. And it was basically six months to the day that they had just gotten there, that they had started flying. So they were wearing their gold wings, and it was just such a proud moment, and we were so happy to see one another. And I obviously I was there when this when this happened. I went back to my hotel room, you know, you get in at like three in the morning and um got woken up abruptly saying that that's the plane I was on that went back to crotch and got hyped jack. And it was just mind-boggling. You know, when I look back on it, it was just surreal thinking that that could have happened. And of course, we immediately called operations and asked if there's anything we could do, and they basically told us, stand by we're gonna need you. And it was just terrifying the whole thing, and just thinking that those beautiful young flight attendants, brand new, were now in charge of almost 400 passengers.

SPEAKER_06 40:30

You've written about your panam years in your memoir, Life, Love, and Hijacking. What made you decide this story needed to be told in that way?

SPEAKER_00 40:39

Well, I always knew I had to write about this. It was I and at the time I did write a little diary, which I didn't find till after I wrote the book, and remarkably it was pretty right-on parallel that your things like this just you know get seered into your memory. But I knew that I was living through something that was you know monumental, and I knew it it had to just had to be written about. And it was such a big part of my Pan Am history and experience, and uh just was so important. And to be honest, that was the hardest part of the book to write. That I had to actually go away for a weekend and write the hijacking part.

SPEAKER_06 41:33

You've shared that the pilots who escaped through the cockpit's emergency hatch carried guilt for years afterwards, even though leaving the aircraft grounded and unable to fly was by by every measure the right call and almost certainly saved lives. Can you talk about that and what you understood about how they carried it?

SPEAKER_00 41:52

Well, you know, at the time this was an unprecedented event. And the procedure had always been the, you know, the main objective is to ground the plane when uh the hijacking happens or anything like this, where you know, obviously it could have been a much worse disaster had they not escaped the plane. But it was very controversial at the time because it had never happened, even though it was the 100 percent correct thing to do, um because it did effectively ground the plane and hate to think what could have happened, what bigger disaster could have happened had it not been grounded. But to the world it looked awful because they left the crew alone on the plane. And I think even though these pilots knew they were doing the right thing, they felt, you know, I can imagine the conflict that anyone would feel knowing you did the right thing, but then you you see what ensued afterwards, and you always wonder, could you have like could you have helped? Or, you know, how would it have been different? But they 100% did the right thing, but some of them could not get over it. And I think it's just a really hard thing looking back. And I and I do think with everything, and I learned this from the flight attendants too, when you look back and you think you would do something different, you always think that would have had a better outcome. But that's really untrue. And I think that's what we learned is that doing the right, I mean, they they obviously did the right thing and they averted all of them averted a much larger disaster. But um at the time that whole pilot thing was very controversial because nobody knew that that was a procedure, but it it absolutely was the right procedure, and thankfully those places. attendants acted so quickly to be able to alert the cockpit and let them you know give them the time to to get out of the plane as they stalled the hijackers so what to me will always stand out as being so remarkable is how quickly they thought on their feet and this training just kicked in and they I mean they were incredible it r it really is remarkable.

SPEAKER_06 44:30

Mahvi I have a follow-up question for you.

SPEAKER_04 44:33

Modvi you were contacted by the captain's wife can you tell us about that conversation and about hearing about how he felt and the guilt he carried yes so this was during uh victim impact sentencing for Safrani in Washington DC where we actually met up with all the passengers and the other people that were on the airplane and before that happened I got a personal email from the wife of the captain and she introduced herself and she said my husband cannot bring himself to write to you he's so emotionally distraught and has been I have been his wife and being his being his partner and if there is any regret in his world and life is leaving you little young girls that day and if he could do it again he would have never done that made that decision and she said you don't know how immensely he carries this load and he's been through therapy and he's tried to heal himself but has not been able to and so she requested if I could find a place to uh talk to him or communicate with him and no of course I would of course I would and when I spoke to him he just broke down crying that was the beginning of the conversation in the end of the conversation he just he didn't have to say anything literally and I I just kept repeating myself saying you know like Wendy just said it there was no precedence to what should be done uh other than the fact that the captain leads you through safety but you know there was nobody and what he did consciously unconsciously was just the right thing otherwise that would be 103 before 103 that is what it would have been and I I'm not I I hope 103 would have also not ever ever happened. So uh going back to the captain he told me that he his pilots could never talk about it. They always tried to bring themselves to conscious conversation but they could not the only times they really literally spoke was when they had any FA interviews or interviews with the company and um and actually after we finished this conversation and you know exchange and how you know he was he he came out with a very different attitude that that's what he told me and so did his wife in a follow-up email after our conversation she said you don't know one conversation has healed what 20 years through that time that was almost 19 to 20 years when we met did not do for him she said he he told her that even if he dies tomorrow it will be peaceful because he's made amends and that that meant a lot yes no because I heard that Madhvi met the captain of the plane at the our museum gala in 2023. Yes I'm curious how that how that meeting was too actually that was not like a big because of the celebration around it uh that just felt like a continuation jay grandtier was also there for that uh gala and so it was it was not like you know like a solemn moment so that was good that was really good which to your point Wendy it brought healing for us not to have to go back to you know start where we were hurt where we came from a place of pain we actually evolved from there so you know that that really made a big difference uh I mean it depends on how people see it but I that that's the way I healed so we didn't have to cry over the same situation again.

SPEAKER_06 48:20

What strikes me most about today's conversation is that this didn't end when the news moved on. It became personal in a way headlines never quite capture a support group a son built out of love for his family a flight attendant who shared her story through her writing a trainer who turned her worst day into a way to protect the next generations of flight attendants and a pilot who carried guilt for a decision that almost certainly saved hundreds of lives. The real legacy of Flight 73 is not just the security changes it inspired across the aviation industry around the world though those matter and they've protected countless lives since it's something quieter and something stronger. Courage. Once it happens it doesn't stay behind in 1986. It doesn't stay on the tarmac and karachi. It keeps finding people generation after generation in ways none of them ever could have predicted. Through these extraordinary lives this story tells each of us something worth carrying with us. One event even one as horrific as this does not get the final word it does not get to silence you it does not get to bury you in fear or in regret or in a guilt that was never truly yours to carry alone. It shows you instead that life is still out there waiting for you to live it fully without apology there is no stopping you to the passengers, the crew the families and the friends of Pan Am Flight 73 we remember you we remember what you lost what you carried and what you gave the rest of us simply by continuing to live and to tell the truth of what happened. You are remembered the heroism and courage shown in the face of unimaginable terror still inspires the world today. This has been a special 40th anniversary episode of the Pan Am Podcast brought to you by the Pan Am Museum Foundation located at the Cradle of Aviation Museum in Garden City Long Island with special thanks to Mr Adam Aaron Chairman and CEO of AMC Theaters and president of our sister organization the Pan Am Historical Foundation for the continued generous financial support of this podcast. Please like share and subscribe to our podcast and visit our website at the Panamuseum.org. Until next time I'm Ken Anderson thank you for listening